what kind of comments/arguing from a coach constitute a technical foul?

[Rich]

Originally posted by thereluctantref
I know that this is probably very subjective but what kind of comments are acceptable and unacceptable from a coach? I know that some coaches like to "work" the referees but I was wondering when their comments overstep the boundary. I have some examples below and could you tell me which are acceptable and not?

1. "What kind of call was that?"
2. "You've got to be kidding me!"
3. "C'mon ref, you have to call it both ways!"
4. "1, 2, 3" (counting 3 seconds for you)
5. "Oh! That wasn't a foul!"

I know that some comments are more neutral, like when coaches point out violations, like calling out traveling or double dribbles, but I was wondering about if these are ever acceptable.

1-3 and 5 I'm not even hearing, but I'd probably address #4 as I'm not going to have the coach counting for me. Truth is, I'm not going to have that in a varsity game, although Tuesday night one coach started counting on a 5 second closely guarded and my partner nipped that one pretty quickly.

What I'd like to say, though, is "Coach, I notice you struggling. The one after 3 is 4."

[SmokeEater]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Truth is, I'm not going to have that in a varsity game, although Tuesday night one coach started counting on a 5 second closely guarded and my partner nipped that one pretty quickly.[/B]

What did he do to Nip it? Just FMI, I get counters who don't actually understand the rule.

[Junker]

Just adding, don't put up with much crap at all in a 5th or 6th grade league. The players in general are not good enough to enforce the rules as written. The coaches should be concerned with making their players better, not giving you a hard time.

[mick]

Originally posted by SmokeEater

What did he do to Nip it? Just FMI, I get counters who don't actually understand the rule. [/B]

FMI ?

[SmokeEater]

For My Information

[Jimgolf]

At this level, I would tell the coaches to cool it right off the bat, even before the game. This isn't the NBA.

Tell them you are all they've got and if you hear any crap from them they can ref the game themselves. They should be setting an example of sportsmanship for the kids and not worrying about calls.

Do you get paid for this? If not, tell them you'll coach their team and they can take the abuse.

Sorry, my annual rec league stint is about to start.

[thereluctantref]

I think that what's happening nowadays is that there is little sportsmanship involved from the coach and it filters down to players. They see coaches like Bobby Knight and they think that they are the example of the attentive/alert coach or strategic coach. I used to say a lot more (I coach as well) but after my first experience refereeing an alumni league game from my old high school, I had a different respect for referees. I think a lot of people who criticize refs, have never donned a whistle...

[thereluctantref]

Jimgolf

"Do you get paid for this? If not, tell them you'll coach their team and they can take the abuse."

Hi Jimgolf,
We get paid $10 a game and sometimes I feel like paying someone else the $10 to take my place. We are shorthanded and if I don't do it, we'd only have one ref and I don't want him/her to have to call the game alone...

[Junker]

I used to say that rec league fees ($10-$20 a game) buys my whistle, but not my game management. I was half-kidding.

[mplagrow]

Originally posted by BadNewsRef

1. ignore
2. ignore (until I could think of a snappy comeback)
3. make sure he sees me glancing at the team foul count on the scoreboard
4. repeated use of this one would probably graduate from stop sign, to warning, to tech
5. ignore

What the heck do you mean by #3??? You don't actually give hiim the impression that you're making sure that you are calling the fouls evenly, do you? That's the LAST place I'd look.

[bebanovich]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

What I'd like to say, though, is "Coach, I notice you struggling. The one after 3 is 4."

How about, "Coach I got to about 4 but your counting out loud confused me and I had to start over."

[BLydic]

Originally posted by bebanovich

How about, "Coach I got to about 4 but your counting out loud confused me and I had to start over."

Coach, is a smarta$$ response what you want to hear when you are working the officials during your game? Somehow I doubt it.

[rainmaker]

Reluctantref, what was your position before you started reffing? If you were a coach or a parent, then I nominate you for hero of the year. To voluntarily step into this position, just for the good of the game, is positively saintly.

Also, if you were a coach or parent, then I think your action should be a little different than if you were a ref from the local association who's trying to help out your compatriots. If you were a coach or a parent, I think you and your ref partner need to meet with the coaches before each game and just say that the refs for this game are trying to make the game better, and trying to help the kids learn a little basketball. You don't deserve to be yelled at, and you won't tolerate it. It also sets a bad example for the kids. You've been studying the rules, and you're doing the best you can and they should leave you alone to do your job. Remind them that the four of you are working together, not as opponents, and if you do continue to be at least civil, the kids will grow and mature a lot faster, and their basketball will get better.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by thereluctantref
I know that this is probably very subjective but what kind of comments are acceptable and unacceptable from a coach? I know that some coaches like to "work" the referees but I was wondering when their comments overstep the boundary. I have some examples below and could you tell me which are acceptable and not?

1. "What kind of call was that?"
2. "You've got to be kidding me!"
3. "C'mon ref, you have to call it both ways!"
4. "1, 2, 3" (counting 3 seconds for you)
5. "Oh! That wasn't a foul!"

I know that some comments are more neutral, like when coaches point out violations, like calling out traveling or double dribbles, but I was wondering about if these are ever acceptable.

Also, e-mail me and I'll send you some other helpful stuff privately.

[rpirtle]

Originally posted by thereluctantref
I know that this is probably very subjective but what kind of comments are acceptable and unacceptable from a coach? I know that some coaches like to "work" the referees but I was wondering when their comments overstep the boundary. I have some examples below and could you tell me which are acceptable and not?

1. "What kind of call was that?"
2. "You've got to be kidding me!"
3. "C'mon ref, you have to call it both ways!"
4. "1, 2, 3" (counting 3 seconds for you)
5. "Oh! That wasn't a foul!"

I know that some comments are more neutral, like when coaches point out violations, like calling out traveling or double dribbles, but I was wondering about if these are ever acceptable.

THERELUCTANTREF, arguing (in the topic of this thread) is never OK with me. But the WAY the coach says any of these is as important as WHAT the coach says. I agree with most everyone when it comes to ignoring these types of comments. If at all possible...ignore all of these. There have also been a few posts that point out that you can acknowledge what the coach is saying. I totally agree...this can take a lot of his / her frustration away. As stated by others, a simple phrase like, "Ok coach, I'll watch for it.", and many others can really help.

On the other hand, I can see how any of the above phrases might result in an automatic "T" under the right circumstances. Imagine, again, the coach is saying any one of the above phrases to you. But this time you are opposite the table and he / she is yelling it across the court while waving their arms in the air. That might warrant a more punitive response from me (yes, I'm talking about a T)...even if no warning had been given yet.

I think you and Rut both identified that dealing with coaches is very subjective. I think you just have to develop a "feel" for when it's OK to talk to the coach, when it's time to stop talking, and when it's time to call the infraction and issue the T. And the only way I know to developp this "feel" is to just keep working more and more games. Good luck.

RPirtle