three fouls, two whistles

[paulis]

Had this one in a mens league game the other night:

Player from team A attempts shot, misses, crashes the offensive boards and creams player from team B. As lead, I whistle the foul but hear my partner's whistle a split second before mine. He has an away from the ball double foul on a couple of guys who just got tangled up. We agree that his whistle came first so we go to AP arrow for the double foul. Team A gets possession and team B is upset that team A gets to keep the ball even though I had the foul on the rebound. Anyone had something like this before? Done anything differently?

Pauli

[Brian Watson]

Did you signal or give any hint as to what you were going to call? If not act like you both had the same thing and then go with his call. In this case it might not have worked since they were so far apart, but it mght have.

[paulis]

I just went up with the fist but everyone knew what I had. All I felt I could do was say that yes I had the rebound foul but that the other whistle cancelled mine.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by paulis
Had this one in a mens league game the other night:

Player from team A attempts shot, misses, crashes the offensive boards and creams player from team B. As lead, I whistle the foul but hear my partner's whistle a split second before mine. He has an away from the ball double foul on a couple of guys who just got tangled up. We agree that his whistle came first so we go to AP arrow for the double foul. Team A gets possession and team B is upset that team A gets to keep the ball even though I had the foul on the rebound. Anyone had something like this before? Done anything differently?

Pauli

This is not a double foul.

Once you've decided that your partner had the first whistle
your foul no longer happened because it was during a dead ball. In rare cases your foul might count, but only if
it was excessive or flagrant, then you would have a
false double foul, the second one being a T during the dead
ball. Of course, you would only really want to go with
this if the second foul was a big one & there was a
reasonable amount of time between the first & second
whistle.

[BktBallRef]

Re-read it Dan. The double foul happened off the ball and was called by the trail official. The foul paulis called wasn't penalized.

Paulis, there's nothing you can do. Team B will just have to be upset. You handled it by the rules. They'll get over it.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

This is not a double foul.

Once you've decided that your partner had the first whistle
your foul no longer happened because it was during a dead ball. In rare cases your foul might count, but only if
it was excessive or flagrant, then you would have a
false double foul, the second one being a T during the dead
ball. Of course, you would only really want to go with
this if the second foul was a big one & there was a
reasonable amount of time between the first & second
whistle.

Talk about a 3 second attention span.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mick

Talk about a 3 second attention span.

Oops. What was the question again?

[Tim Roden]

The correct question is did the shot occure before the double foul occured. Because if there is an attempt on basket, you have to call all three fouls. Two shots and the AP.

Ok, reread question. both calls were non shooting. You did it right.

[mick]

Originally posted by Tim Roden
The correct question is did the shot occure before the double foul occured. Because if there is an attempt on basket, you have to call all three fouls. Two shots and the AP.

Ok, reread question. both calls were non shooting. You did it right.

Tim,
Maybe not, in this case.
The shooter had already missed and was going after the rebound.
My guess is the try had ended.
mick

[JeffRef]

I like to call the off the ball stuff as much as anyone else does but in this case couldn't the trail have held his whistle for a split second on the double foul to let the play continue and see what happens? There is other, more important, action going on! Was the contact so severe that play needed to be stopped instantly? Could the tie up have been diffused verbally?

My spin on this is that coaches hate double fouls. Before calling one I always ask myself...do I really need to call that? Can I talk to those guys instead? What is the advantage/disadvantage for both teams? Normally by the time I've answered all those questions, the play is over and everybody's forgotten it anyway.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JeffRef
I like to call the off the ball stuff as much as anyone else does but in this case couldn't the trail have held his whistle for a split second on the double foul to let the play continue and see what happens? There is other, more important, action going on! Was the contact so severe that play needed to be stopped instantly? Could the tie up have been diffused verbally?

My spin on this is that coaches hate double fouls. Before calling one I always ask myself...do I really need to call that? Can I talk to those guys instead? What is the advantage/disadvantage for both teams? Normally by the time I've answered all those questions, the play is over and everybody's forgotten it anyway.

Without having seen the play, those would be difficult questions to answer. However, double fouls do have their place in the game. Whhen talking to them doesn't work, zing them both with a foul and you'll clean things up in a hurry.

And, stop asking yourself so many questions.

[dblref]

Had a double foul situation last night in a boys varsity summer league game. Had 2 players going at each other -- both give and take about equal -- but it was quickly becoming a problem. I was the lead in a 3-man and I had already told both of them to knock off the crap, but they continued up and down the court so I called the double foul. Both guys looked at me like "what was that for"? No more problems with either guy. BTW, both coaches saw everything and both players were replaced and "counseled". I am not a big fan of the double foul, but it sure worked last night.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by dblref
Had a double foul situation last night in a boys varsity summer league game. Had 2 players going at each other -- both give and take about equal -- but it was quickly becoming a problem. I was the lead in a 3-man and I had already told both of them to knock off the crap, but they continued up and down the court so I called the double foul. Both guys looked at me like "what was that for"? No more problems with either guy. BTW, both coaches saw everything and both players were replaced and "counseled". I am not a big fan of the double foul, but it sure worked last night.

I find it works, I can't remember a time when I had trouble
with it. Of course, I don't call one every game but I would
if I had to.

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by mick

Talk about a 3 second attention span.

lol

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I find it works, I can't remember a time when I had trouble
with it. Of course, I don't call one every game but I would
if I had to.

I was told at basketball camp that is one of the dumbest calls!! Something had to happen first. There are very few times where you want to call a double foul.