Delayed Technical foul?

bradfordwilkins · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 06, 2006, 11:17pm

Had a situation, A1 drives to the hoop and dishes off to A2... B1 anticipating contact from A1 flops to the floor (after multiple warnings to stop flopping). After hitting the floor, B1 turns to me and says What the F**K (referring presumably to the no call on the player control)... I immediatley WHACK him just as I realize A2 is a step away from a wide open layup.

Obviously the way it played out, there is no shot -- but for future reference, do you hold the whistle on the technical to allow the open basket to be made?

zebraman · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 06, 2006, 11:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
Had a situation, A1 drives to the hoop and dishes off to A2... B1 anticipating contact from A1 flops to the floor (after multiple warnings to stop flopping). After hitting the floor, B1 turns to me and says What the F**K (referring presumably to the no call on the player control)... I immediatley WHACK him just as I realize A2 is a step away from a wide open layup.

Obviously the way it played out, there is no shot -- but for future reference, do you hold the whistle on the technical to allow the open basket to be made?

Yes, withold whistle similar to case play 10.4.1 Situation E.

Z

JugglingReferee · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 01:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
Had a situation, A1 drives to the hoop and dishes off to A2... B1 anticipating contact from A1 flops to the floor (after multiple warnings to stop flopping). After hitting the floor, B1 turns to me and says What the F**K (referring presumably to the no call on the player control)... I immediatley WHACK him just as I realize A2 is a step away from a wide open layup.

Obviously the way it played out, there is no shot -- but for future reference, do you hold the whistle on the technical to allow the open basket to be made?

Would you:

Hold the whistle to allow the basket, T for upsporting behavoir for again flopping after you told him not to. Then T for the language.

?

Just asking.

Camron Rust · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 03:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Quote:

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
Had a situation, A1 drives to the hoop and dishes off to A2... B1 anticipating contact from A1 flops to the floor (after multiple warnings to stop flopping). After hitting the floor, B1 turns to me and says What the F**K (referring presumably to the no call on the player control)... I immediatley WHACK him just as I realize A2 is a step away from a wide open layup.

Obviously the way it played out, there is no shot -- but for future reference, do you hold the whistle on the technical to allow the open basket to be made?

Would you:

Hold the whistle to allow the basket, T for upsporting behavoir for again flopping after you told him not to. Then T for the language.

?

Just asking.

Probably not...unless there was some new language that followed the first T.

bradfordwilkins · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 10:39am

I also wouldn't give a second T in that situation -- although I must say the kid was getting a T whether he opened his mouth or not for his continued flopping.

jeffpea · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 01:58pm

T 'em up for the language. No T for the "flop" - just give him a blocking foul. A T for a flop is a "no win" situation - it can only get you in trouble. I would prefer that they change this to a violation; that way more officials would call it when it occurs (just like the swinging of the elbows or leaving the court unauthorized).

Adam · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 02:36pm

Violation? On the defense? Make it an exeption and allow a personal foul without contact.

[Edited by Snaqwells on Feb 7th, 2006 at 07:26 PM]

bradfordwilkins · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 05:14pm

Yea, I just got an email from the head of officials who agreed with the assessment to call the flopping as a block -- The question on that goes then, is there no delayed whistle on the block call?

Texas Aggie · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 06:50pm

>>Violation? On the defense? Make it an exeption and allow a personal foul.<<

Sure. It wouldn't be THAT difficult to do a delayed dead ball situation ala hockey (similar to defensive FT lane violations) where the violation is called if the offense doesn't score in that possession. Possession would be defined as a trip in the front court in team control. If TC is lost, call the violation. If the ball goes in the backcourt and Team A legally retrieves it (i.e. they threw an errant pass, Team B touched it but didn't control it, and A regained possession) delayed violation is waived.

On second thought, never mind. While this sounds good on first glance, you have all sorts of problems with fouls occuring on either team, or violations occuring on Team A. If Team B violates (slaps ball out of bounds, e.g.), there's no effect to the delayed violation.

deecee · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 07:01pm

a block if there is any minute contact -- and warn the kid next time that happens its a T

Dan_ref · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 07, 2006, 08:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by deecee
a block if there is any minute contact -- and warn the kid next time that happens its a T

I realize you have a lot on your mind, being a rocket scientist & all, but if you actually read the original post you'll see that a warning was issued.

Nevadaref · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 10, 2006, 04:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Quote:

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
Had a situation, A1 drives to the hoop and dishes off to A2... B1 anticipating contact from A1 flops to the floor (after multiple warnings to stop flopping). After hitting the floor, B1 turns to me and says What the F**K (referring presumably to the no call on the player control)... I immediatley WHACK him just as I realize A2 is a step away from a wide open layup.

Obviously the way it played out, there is no shot -- but for future reference, do you hold the whistle on the technical to allow the open basket to be made?

Would you:

Hold the whistle to allow the basket, T for upsporting behavoir for again flopping after you told him not to. Then T for the language.

?

Just asking.

Yes. Call it by the book and give the kid two Ts and a seat on the bench for the rest of the night.

Junker · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 10, 2006, 09:37am

I agree with calling the flop a T. If he's been specifically warned, it sounds on numerous occasions, you have to call the T. Its similar to talking to post player about pushing. You'll say, "don't push, don't push and if they continue, you hit them with a foul so they learn. Pop him with a T for flopping and he might get the message. I'd also call the other, any high school kid who is going to drop the F bomb on an official needs to be heading to the showers.

JugglingReferee · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 10, 2006, 10:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
...any high school kid who is going to drop the F bomb on an official needs to be heading to the showers.

How do you feel about this?

Don't hit him with the T for the flop, and another T for the language.

Just a flagrant T for the language. The difference is two foul shots.

Junker · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 10, 2006, 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
...any high school kid who is going to drop the F bomb on an official needs to be heading to the showers.

How do you feel about this?

Don't hit him with the T for the flop, and another T for the language.

Just a flagrant T for the language. The difference is two foul shots.

That would work as well. Either way, it sounds like this kid was interested in playing the game of basketball, he was doing his own thing. Getting him off the floor seems to be the best course of action.