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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 03:56pm
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T for flopping? NO
T for language? YES Blocking foul on flopper? Its either a no call or a block. If the player is going to take themself out of the play by laying on the ground and not being in a position to defend, let them. Defender is useless when laying on his back. A blocking foul or a no call in my opinion is the way to go. If the kid flops out of enough plays when there is a no call, the coach will usually take the player out and refocus them. If the kid gets enough fouls called against him, he is coming out anyway. [Edited by icallfouls on Feb 10th, 2006 at 04:04 PM] 
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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 04:09pm
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Heys guys, one of last years POI's was a T for flopping, no warning necessary. This kid was supposedly warned several times.
I agree T - for the flop T - for the F word, (and that ain't Fishin') Head to the showers young man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Edited by FishinRef on Feb 10th, 2006 at 04:22 PM]
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Don't call 'em all, just the ones that matter.
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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 04:25pm
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Quote:
According to the POE in last year's rule book, a flop is defined as a player acting as though he or she has been fouled when in actuality there has been "no contact or incidental contact". That's why a flop is penalized under rule 10-3-7f- "faking being fouled". The definition of a personal foul, as per rule 4-19-1, says that it "is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live". Similarly, the definition of a block in rule 4-7-1 says that "blocking is illegal personal contact...". If there is "no contact or incidental contact", you cannot have a personal foul, whether that personal foul is also a block or not. Ergo, the rules will not allow you to call a personal foul for blocking on a "flop". The only call that can possibly be made on a flop, by rule, is either a "T" or a no-call. Iow, if you have illegal contact, you do not have a flop. On a play like this, you also judge whether that contact was illegal or not by using the other rules in the book, or by following the direction of case book plays like the one cited previously. Never call anything that you can't explain or justify.
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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 04:29pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
[B] Quote:
Sure, sounds good, but who is Ergo? 
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Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.
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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 04:44pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by mplagrow
[B] Quote:
the quote containing ergo, was not mine, the credit goes to JR, maybe he knows ergo
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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 04:53pm
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Quote:
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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 05:08pm
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Quote:
[/B][/QUOTE]Going back to the original post that started this thread, if a player "flops" after receiving "multiple warnings" not to, then yup, I'd sureasheck call the "T". I probably wouldn't wait for any "multiple warnings" either; I personally don't believe in repeatedly warning somebody not to repeat the same act without doing something about it. And I'd give the flopper the second bye-bye "T" for swearing also. I would try to hold the whistle until the lay-up was good or not too, if possible.
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Fri Feb 10, 2006, 05:36pm
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If A2 is a step away, he's shooting and continuous motion allows that shot to count, regardless of when the whistle went off for the T for swearing. The rule says foul and does not specify contact.
 Now if you are double dipping the flopper, then you need to hold that whistle until the shot is released.
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