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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 12:48am
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Hey Everyone, (I’m sorry in advance for the long post – it is interesting though)

For those of you that don’t know me, I’m Pat - I am a member of CEJBO in NJ. My first freshman boy’s game was today and I think I could use some pointers or advice...

A few plays/instances were somewhat questionable and I would like to know if you would handle the following situations like my partner/and me did. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks In Advance.
To let you know a little about the coaches in advance:
Blue Younger coach – new to coaching – “hot-headed”
White Older coach – experienced

SIT.1) A1 is dribbling the ball and proceeds to hold the ball over the sideline across from the table. B1 decides to run out of bounds, tip the ball while attempting to jump in bounds. (He thought to prevent the OOB situation)…
My Ruling – Violation on B1 – A Ball

SIT.2) After an OOB call, then a timeout, my partner calls “white” – and blows his whistle a few times. Then white walks on the court. He walks to me (who is the L), and I pointed him over to the other official. At that time, my partner places the ball on the ground as W1 picks up the ball. Instead of in-bounding the ball he passes it to W2 who walks out of bounds. (Here is where it gets good)…The W Coach walks out onto the court and starts to question the call – in a civil manner.
Our Ruling – We informed the coach about the violation and move on. Didn’t feel T was necessary

SIT.3) As the new T I’m moving into position as the blue coach says “MR. OFFICIAL” – the first time I ignore him as I’m watching the play… “MR. OFFICIAL”… So I look at him and say “Coach?” Then he comes back with… “You took one from me and I’m not going to let you take two.”
My Ruling – Blow it off – Saw a ticky-tack foul on blue – called it – Blue 42, hand-check, etc…
***Thought about “T” but didn’t think it was necessary

SIT.4) A1 is dribbling up court, B1 is defending. When A1 establishes front court status, B1 “bear hugs” A1 – at this time the coach for Blue proceeds to walk out on to the court and starts questioning my partner. He states that there was a foul (in my position as the new L in a full court press) {I was in position and I did not see white commit a foul}. My partner “T’s” the coach – while I’m reporting the foul to the table. The table did not catch my reporting… So my partner gives the BIG T… What I mean by that is – “Tweet”, “Technical Foul on Blue Coach, White shoots two…” Goes to administer the free throw already. There I am – still at the table – so I finish with the table (had a 8th Grader doing the book)… and tweet to my partner. Then I hustle over and state I have an intentional foul before the Tech on B1… We put A1 on the line – 2 shots, he stays for the T – 2 shots – all made. A Ball… Any comments or tips you can give me for this situation?

SIT.4 1/2) Blue coach (now “T”), proceeds to coach his team standing up… We inform him of the seat-belt rule… He says “So WHAT? There is no one here!!! Stop Showing Off.”
Our Ruling – We told him he had to sit down. He did, got up again and told him again. (2x got up)

SIT.5) 40-sec left in the game Blue is down by 12, I’m running down court – becoming the new L, and the Blue coach says --- “THAT’S UNBELIEVABLE REF!!” so I look and there’s Blue standing up in front of the scorers table. Well I had “tweet” and a pause and signaled “T”… Walked to the table and white coach came over and said – there’s only 40 sec left… I decided to waive it off and keep going… I didn’t want to eject him, but I wanted to send the message… What do you think?

Thanks in advance. Hopefully this game story entertained some of you…

Thanks…

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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 12:58am
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I think you did just about everything well, except sit 4, where he told you to stop showing off. He pretty much is defying you blatantly, I'd ship him.
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 01:02am
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Thanks Teigan, I know I should have - but I ump. baseball too. And thats why I really just ignore everything ("no rabbit ears)... Unless the coach gets in my face or really ticks me...
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 01:37am
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Originally posted by PAT THE REF
Thanks Teigan, I know I should have - but I ump. baseball too. And thats why I really just ignore everything ("no rabbit ears)... Unless the coach gets in my face or really ticks me...
Yeah, but bench decorum is a continuing problem, and it won't get better until the officials make them comply - it will only get worse. His disrespectful comment should, IMHO, be an automatic T.
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 01:53am
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Congrats on your first HS game! I hope it was as good as you hoped it would be. The good news, it gets even better from h ere

A common rookie mistake is to ignore the coaches completely, endure whatever abuse they heap upon you, and pat yourself on the back for having a thick skin. I sometimes hear 2nd or 3rd year officials brag that they've never given out a T. Either they're incredible, natural game managers, or they haven't gotten the stones to deal with coaches when they needed to. It sounds like you didn't entirely succumb to this trap. Congrats!

Thick skin is fine for baseball, but in basketball you need to "handle" coaches differently here than you do on the diamond. Some of the things he said and did, I think, needed a better response than just ignoring the behavior. Perhaps, just maybe, you could have avoided the T's if you had handled him better early on.

If the coach walks out onto the floor to ask you a question, walk him back to the sideline and let him know that he's not to be out on the floor. If he does it again, whack him.

He gave you a crap line like "I'm not going to let you take another", I think that needs a response, and not just a "I hear you, Coach." Maybe a "that'll be enough of that."

"Stop showing off"? when you tell him he has to sit? T him again and show him the door. He can stand up all he likes in the parking lot.

2nd T with 40 seconds left? Who cares if there is only 40 seconds left, it's time for this bozo to gain some much needed experience. Send him to the showers.

Just my $0.02
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 05:57am
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Quote:
Originally posted by PAT THE REF
SIT.5) 40-sec left in the game Blue is down by 12, I’m running down court – becoming the new L, and the Blue coach says --- “THAT’S UNBELIEVABLE REF!!” so I look and there’s Blue standing up in front of the scorers table. Well I had “tweet” and a pause and signaled “T”… Walked to the table and white coach came over and said – there’s only 40 sec left… I decided to waive it off and keep going… I didn’t want to eject him, but I wanted to send the message… What do you think?

Thanks in advance. Hopefully this game story entertained some of you…

Thanks…

Sounds like you did all things well, Pat, except that Sit 5 could have been handled a bit better.

Sit 1: Correct call.
Sit 2: Good no T.
Sit 3: Good to ignore.
Sit 4: Certainly sounds like a T.
Sit 4.5: "Stop Showing Off"... is that grounds for ejection?
Sit 5: this one could have been handled differently. Do I read it correctly when I believe that the white coach convinced you to not toss the blue coach because there are only 40 seconds left? Too bad for the white coach, blue coach goes.
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 06:08am
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Thanks everyone... I felt that, the T was warranted because the coach was warned twice and then was standing up and coaching… Yes, the white coach did talk me out of it… As I said – Blue was a hot-head NEW coach… Had no clue about seatbelt rule, and the new violation… Hopefully it gets better and I know it will… White was up - as I said - and I wanted to get out of there... It was kind of funny - in the stands was "your ridiculous, I don’t believe you” The fans of course blamed the game on us. But that’s one down… More to go ~ Thanks Again ~

[Edited by PAT THE REF on Feb 4th, 2006 at 06:12 AM]
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 11:58am
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Originally posted by PAT THE REF



SIT.4) A1 is dribbling up court, B1 is defending. When A1 establishes front court status, B1 “bear hugs” A1 – at this time the coach for Blue proceeds to walk out on to the court and starts questioning my partner. He states that there was a foul (in my position as the new L in a full court press) {I was in position and I did not see white commit a foul}. My partner “T’s” the coach – while I’m reporting the foul to the table. The table did not catch my reporting… So my partner gives the BIG T… What I mean by that is – “Tweet”, “Technical Foul on Blue Coach, White shoots two…” Goes to administer the free throw already. There I am – still at the table – so I finish with the table (had a 8th Grader doing the book)… and tweet to my partner. Then I hustle over and state I have an intentional foul before the Tech on B1… We put A1 on the line – 2 shots, he stays for the T – 2 shots – all made. A Ball… Any comments or tips you can give me for this situation?
Good T. Your partner should have kept his composure and let you finish reporting your foul before he went to the table to report his T. Then before doing anything else you guys should have gotten together to decide who's shooting, at which basket, who gets the ball after, etc etc. Then continue the game.
Quote:


SIT.4 1/2) Blue coach (now “T”), proceeds to coach his team standing up… We inform him of the seat-belt rule… He says “So WHAT? There is no one here!!! Stop Showing Off.”
Our Ruling – We told him he had to sit down. He did, got up again and told him again. (2x got up)


Sigh.

Second T. If there's no one else to coach the team the game is over. Before leaving make sure you get the time of the second T for when you call your assigner which you will do as soon as you get into your car.

Generally if you recognize before hand that a coach is going to be a pain keep him on a short leash. There's a show on TV called the dog whisperer. A dog trainer goes to people with problem dogs & he cures them essentially by calmly & quietly establishing that he is in control of everything the dog does. You need to learn how to be a coach whisperer.

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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 12:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PAT THE REF

SIT.4) A1 is dribbling up court, B1 is defending. When A1 establishes front court status, B1 “bear hugs” A1 – at this time the coach for Blue proceeds to walk out on to the court and starts questioning my partner. He states that there was a foul (in my position as the new L in a full court press) {I was in position and I did not see white commit a foul}. My partner “T’s” the coach – while I’m reporting the foul to the table. The table did not catch my reporting… So my partner gives the BIG T… What I mean by that is – “Tweet”, “Technical Foul on Blue Coach, White shoots two…” Goes to administer the free throw already. There I am – still at the table – so I finish with the table (had a 8th Grader doing the book)… and tweet to my partner. Then I hustle over and state I have an intentional foul before the Tech on B1… We put A1 on the line – 2 shots, he stays for the T – 2 shots – all made. A Ball… Any comments or tips you can give me for this situation?
I agree with everyone's assessments on the Ts but I have to ask about the intentional foul you mention in this situation. I am not following the sequence here. B1 "bear hugs" A1. I assume that B1 is on the white team and A1 is on Blue (this assumtion is based on the fact that Blue coach comes on the floor). You say in the beginning of the situation that you did not see a foul against B1 from your position as lead. Then, later, you say you hustle over to your partner and say you had an intentional foul on B1. How do you call an intentional foul on B1 now? If you did not see it from lead earlier, you cannot call it now. Also, If you called a technical on Blue's coach and, in this situation, Team A is blue, how did A1 get 4 free throws? I would think that if you called the intentional and then a T you would have 2 shots for A1 for the intentional and then 2 shots for Team B for the tech. Am I missing something here?
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 12:25pm
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Okay, I re-read the above situation again and I think I understand it now. Team A is the white team and Team B is the blue team. The "bear hug" is called an intentional foul by Pat but the blue coach comes on the court and says white fouled soemwhere else or maybe he thought it was a player control foul. Anyway, Team Blue (or B) coach gets whacked so Team White (or A) gets the intentional + the T. The first time I read it I was confused but this seems to make sense to me. Is this correct? If so, you are corect in administering the intentional first and then the T since you shoot them in the order you called them.
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 11:01pm
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Yes. A is White - B is Blue... Blue coach says that White put his hand on his kid etc... No foul... etc...
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 11:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PAT THE REF
Thanks Teigan, I know I should have - but I ump. baseball too. And thats why I really just ignore everything ("no rabbit ears)... Unless the coach gets in my face or really ticks me...
Even in baseball, it's not rabbit ears when you hear something directed in your direction. Or said loudly enough for you to hear.
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