Duke vs. BC

[TriggerMN]

I thought Sherman Williams was a smallish running back for Alabama in the 1990's??? I think he wore #29...

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by TriggerMN
I thought Sherman Williams was a smallish running back for Alabama in the 1990's??? I think he wore #29...

Sherman Williams was lol. Everyone means Sheldon Williams. I have commented already but after reading some of the other posts started doubting what I saw. Espn.com has a clip that shows the highlights of the game and includes that play. I dont see what some of you see. Williams off hand is definetly on the offensive player, but reguardless of that, the lower body contact is severe. He took a swipe at the ball, but made no contact there. It's with his lower body where the foul occurs. College players dont miss that badly especially when their shot dont get blocked for no reason. Take a look at the clip. Watch the lower body contact. That is a must call in a game of that magnitude, especially since it was at BC!!

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

Sherman Williams was lol. Everyone means Sheldon Williams. I have commented already but after reading some of the other posts started doubting what I saw. Espn.com has a clip that shows the highlights of the game and includes that play. I dont see what some of you see. Williams off hand is definetly on the offensive player, but reguardless of that, the lower body contact is severe. He took a swipe at the ball, but made no contact there. It's with his lower body where the foul occurs. College players dont miss that badly especially when their shot dont get blocked for no reason. Take a look at the clip. Watch the lower body contact. That is a must call in a game of that magnitude, especially since it was at BC!!

why don't you link us the clip?

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

why don't you link us the clip?

I would have but my computer is acting up. Sorry. Go to espn.com and on the far right their is a media player. Load the Duke BC game.

[refTN]

What about the offensive player? He puts his off arm into SHELDON'S (not Sherman) armpit possibly causing his weight not to match Sheldon's and therefore knocking him to the ground. I think this was a good no call personally. I know one of the guys who worked the game. I should see him in the next week or two. I'll see what he says and get back to ya.

[JRutledge]

I just looked at the tape from the TV angle and I did not see this foul you are talking about. I see two players jumping forward and the smaller shooter fell to the floor. We cannot call fouls just because someone fell to the floor. Contact can also be severe and the proper call would be nothing (4-27). Now I would have to see the angle closer to the baseline to decide, but the defender is always allowed to jump up straight in their vertical space and be legal.

Once again, I stand by my statement I made before. We penalize the defense too as officials. The shooter is going hard to the basket and he runs into a brick wall. Falling should not be the reason we call a foul.

Peace

[Red_Killian]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260320103

The play is about 2/3 of the way in. The replay during the live telecast showed a different view. I'm still having trouble seeing a defensive foul.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by IREFU2

I agree!

You fellas need to look at the replay. Williams' left arm doesn't touch the shooter at all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260320103

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I just looked at the tape from the TV angle and I did not see this foul you are talking about. I see two players jumping forward and the smaller shooter fell to the floor. We cannot call fouls just because someone fell to the floor. Contact can also be severe and the proper call would be nothing (4-27). Now I would have to see the angle closer to the baseline to decide, but the defender is always allowed to jump up straight in their vertical space and be legal.

Once again, I stand by my statement I made before. We penalize the defense too as officials. The shooter is going hard to the basket and he runs into a brick wall. Falling should not be the reason we call a foul.

Peace

Falling should not be the reason that we call a foul. However, excessive lower body contact should be. Williams is 6 inches and 70 pounds heavier than the offensive player, of course even with minimual contact the offensive player would probably get the worst of the exchange. We cannot penalize Williams b/c he is stronger or bigger, but we cant ignore the fact that b/c he is bigger and stronger some contact from him could have the same effect as Reddick running you over. I watched the entire game. It had been a closely officiated game the whole way, evident by the number of fouls called (BC all-american Smith along with another BC player fouled out)and I feel that the last call was missed. Players indeed need to be away of Time and situation but also do the officials. I think it was a foul, some say its a good no call, I think everyone can agree that it was very questionable. That being the case, BC was down 3. Had the foul been called for the questionable contact, BC then is still down 1 with 14 seconds left. The officials havent "taken anything away." BC still has to convert. Had there been 3 seconds left and Duke up 1 then I say let the players decide the game and let it go!!

[IREFU2]

I guess he just fell backwards on under is own volition?

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

You fellas need to look at the replay. Williams' left arm doesn't touch the shooter at all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260320103

From that angle it seems as though you are right. From the slow motion angle under the hoop it looks different. One thing that does need to be considered is the angle at which Williams is coming from. Imagine the same play with Williams trying to take a charge from that angle. You gonna give it to him? You want to talk about the principle of verticality, just watch it. He is moving into the shooter. He creates the contact. Had he been directly in front of the shooter then maybe, but the angle at which he took IMO there is no way that isn't a foul.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by IREFU2
I guess he just fell backwards on under is own volition?

He fell backward because he ran into a bigger player who jumped straight up, and because he pushed off with his forearm. If you were to run into a brick wall, I could guarantee you would fall backwards.

You need to lose the fanboy approach and look at the play as an official.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

He fell backward because he ran into a bigger player who jumped straight up, and because he pushed off with his forearm.

You need to lose the fanboy approach and look at the play as an official.

The camera view from the top on the reply clearly show contact made by Sheldon. I am thinking like an official!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by IREFU2


The camera view from the top on the reply clearly show contact made by Sheldon. I am thinking like an official!

I will say this. If this is the kind of call you make when calling Boy's varsity games or Men's college games, you will struggle (not referring just to you, so do not take this personal). That is not at all a good quality varsity or college call on the Men's side. It might be a great girl's or women's call. Once again I saw the same play on the Men's NCAA bulletin video and they said this kind of call should not be called a foul on the defender.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by IREFU2

The camera view from the top on the reply clearly show contact made by Sheldon. I am thinking like an official!

First, since when do officials sit in the rafters or on top of the backboard to make a call.

Second, yes, there was contact. But contact alone is not a foul. This contact was created by the shooter, not by the defender who jumped straight up.