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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 11:27pm
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Question

I was doing a JV boys game against two very good teams in are area. Team A is up about 15 points, start of second half. My partner is R so I get the ball for him, first horn blows, I go tell both teams first horn and go take my position on baseline. Second horn goes off, team A comes to take out ball and team B is a little slow coming onto court. Coach is trying to fire up his team with a little extra speech. My partner takes ball sets it on ground and starts is 5 second count. Team A runs over picks it up, easy lay-up. Team B coach is going nuts, people in stands going nuts. I was always told never to do this, it just looks bad. What do you think?
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 11:45pm
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How slow was "a little slow coming out? And how often had they been slow earlier in the game?
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 12:09am
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This is a perfect example of poor game management. The first half has gone smoothly and in one fleeting moment the whole game went down the proverbial toilet. Even if both ref's called a perfect game before and after this one play that will never be remembered. The only thing Coach B will remember is that you "stuck it to his team" even after they were so far behind.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 12:16am
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Quote:
Originally posted by refnrev
How slow was "a little slow coming out? And how often had they been slow earlier in the game?
This was the first time all game they were slow coming onto floor. I'd say they were coming onto the court 10 seconds late if that. I guess all refs are not like Teigan, got a little to much pleasure out of this one for me. Not my cup of tea. I like my tea a little less hostle.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 12:16am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teigan
I'd do it....I have done it....it makes them come out when there suppose to...although I suppose I could whack the bench with an indirect,that would also make them come out although i am sure that would go over just as great!!
Whack him with an indirect what?

If I was your partner and you did this it would go over as well with me as it did with the coach you whacked.

And if you then are perplexed why I did not have your back and assess Coach B with a T afterwards for calling you a #&*@##! my only response would be I thought the Coach was accuarate in his assessment of you.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 12:33am
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Would you do this?

What did the coaches think the two horns were for? When the second horn sounds, the teams should be ready for play. If the coach wants to continue to talk should everyone else just wait until he finishes?
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 01:09am
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Message to Teagan,

It is probably a good idea that you have deleted all your posts to this thread. You were getting yourself into a hole too deep to get out of. When you can't take the heat better just escape and destroy all the evidence against you.

That you would even suggest the indirect you would assess would be for an EXCESSIVE TIMEOUT (per NCAA) is even more assinine than the idea to assess a T in the first place. To be EXCESSIVE the team must have first used up all thier allotted timeouts already, AND secondly, VERBALLY requsted another after that.

If you wish to discuss NF or NCAA rules I am ready, just bring it on.



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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 03:41am
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Re: Would you do this?

Quote:
Originally posted by ncump7
What did the coaches think the two horns were for? When the second horn sounds, the teams should be ready for play. If the coach wants to continue to talk should everyone else just wait until he finishes?
No NO No-

When the second horn sounds........ The team better be breaking the huddle and getting ready to play!!!
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 04:06am
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Re: Would you do this?

Quote:
Originally posted by ncump7
What did the coaches think the two horns were for? When the second horn sounds, the teams should be ready for play. If the coach wants to continue to talk should everyone else just wait until he finishes?
As others have said, for the lack of maybe just clapping your hands and saying "c'mon, let's go" and then waiting a few seconds, you're putting the game in the dumper. It's just shows a lack of game management skill, is all. This type of over-officious call can put you in career limbo.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 05:53am
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Re: Re: Would you do this?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
As others have said, for the lack of maybe just clapping your hands and saying "c'mon, let's go" and then waiting a few seconds, you're putting the game in the dumper. It's just shows a lack of game management skill, is all. This type of over-officious call can put you in career limbo.
I feel it's just the opposite - it is a prescribed game management skill in the NFHS rules.

If this has been on ongoing problem in the game - I would do it and have. Especially when this is the first of 2 or 3 games that night (frosh, JV, Var).

This is something that can be addressed earlier in the game with a quick talk to the coach not breaking their huddle. "Coach, next time get them on the floor by the second horn or we'll have to put the ball in play"
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 06:46am
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Re: Re: Re: Would you do this?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stmaryrams
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
As others have said, for the lack of maybe just clapping your hands and saying "c'mon, let's go" and then waiting a few seconds, you're putting the game in the dumper. It's just shows a lack of game management skill, is all. This type of over-officious call can put you in career limbo.
I feel it's just the opposite - it is a prescribed game management skill in the NFHS rules.

If this has been on ongoing problem in the game - I would do it and have. Especially when this is the first of 2 or 3 games that night (frosh, JV, Var).

This is something that can be addressed earlier in the game with a quick talk to the coach not breaking their huddle. "Coach, next time get them on the floor by the second horn or we'll have to put the ball in play"

The prescribed mechanic is the officials step toward the huddle on the first horn with 1 finger up saying, "First horn."

Then you stay there until they break. If that second horn goes and they are still in a huddle so are you with 2 fingers up, "Second horn let's break, we need them on the floor NOW coach."

I have not had to put a ball on the floor in like 10 years, and I haven't had a partner do it either.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 07:47am
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Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra

The prescribed mechanic is the officials step toward the huddle on the first horn with 1 finger up saying, "First horn."

Then you stay there until they break. If that second horn goes and they are still in a huddle so are you with 2 fingers up, "Second horn let's break, we need them on the floor NOW coach."

I have not had to put a ball on the floor in like 10 years, and I haven't had a partner do it either.

My copy of the NFHS officials manual is quite different.


Now I'm not advocating being overly strict about this, but I'm certainly not going to be over there begging the team to come out and play. I try to follow the proper procedure just maybe bend it a little to give them some leeway if appropriate for the situation.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 08:30am
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I have -- ONCE -- given the ball to the offense when the defense refused to come out of the huddle. Warning horn, second horn, whistle ("let's go"), third horn, second whistle ("come on, blue"), no team. Whistle to start play, easy lay-up for white.

That was probably 10 years ago in a CYO game. I would probably do the same in a HS game if the team delayed as much as that team did, but I've never come close to having to do that.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 09:34am
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Like others have said;
1st horn- step to the huddle and give em a #1 sign plus verbalize.
2nd horn- give em the #2 sign and a "let's get em ready to play coach".
If they don't come out I go to a captain and remind them to honor the horns and have his team ready to play at the 2nd horn.

If I'm using the resumption of play procedure it's because a team is really really really lagging in coming out but I've not had to do that.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
I have -- ONCE -- given the ball to the offense when the defense refused to come out of the huddle. Warning horn, second horn, whistle ("let's go"), third horn, second whistle ("come on, blue"), no team. Whistle to start play, easy lay-up for white.

That was probably 10 years ago in a CYO game. I would probably do the same in a HS game if the team delayed as much as that team did, but I've never come close to having to do that.
Chuck, I had the exact same thing in an AAU game. Three horns, two whistles and team B does not come out to play. The last thing I yelled was “THE BALLS GOING IN PLAY”. Two players looked up at me, but no one moved. They did not come out until after team A scored. The coach was upset. His explanation was that he did not hear the horn. I have not not had this in HS games. Butif it got to that point I would do the same thing.
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