violation or not?

[BigDave]

A1 has possesion of the ball. While dribbling, she loses control and steps out of bounds with both feet. She returns back to the court and is the first to touch the ball. Violation?

I blew it dead. Scold me or praise me...

[Mark Padgett]

Ask yourself this: if she hadn't gone OOB, would you have blown the whistle? Of course not, this is just an interrupted dribble and there is no player control during an interrupted dribble. If she established on the court before touching, no violation. Of course, she can't dribble again.

So, find the case that says that if a player steps OOB during their interrupted dribble, it's a violation at that point, not when they come back in and touch.

Did you know there used to be a rule that if a player stepped on the division line during their interrupted dribble in the frontcourt, it was an over and back violation? This was changed only about 2 years ago.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Ask yourself this: if she hadn't gone OOB, would you have blown the whistle? Of course not, this is just an interrupted dribble and there is no player control during an interrupted dribble. If she established on the court before touching, no violation. Of course, she can't dribble again.

Sure she can dribble again. It's still an interrupted dribble. There's nothing that legally prevents her from picking the ball up or resuming her dribble. As you said, she lost player control. Just because she resumes her dribble doesn't negate the fact that there was a loss of player control.

[Oz Referee]

There was also a rule (and I think it still applies) that a player may not leave the confines of the court to gain an advantage. This was mainly aimed at avoiding screens and escaping 3 second violations, but I would think that it couls apply to this case as well.

Keep in mind that I am talking FIBA rules here.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Sure she can dribble again. It's still an interrupted dribble. There's nothing that legally prevents her from picking the ball up or resuming her dribble. As you said, she lost player control. Just because she resumes her dribble doesn't negate the fact that there was a loss of player control. [/B]

Oh,dear, have I been calling this wrong? I thought this rule (not referring to the out-of-bounds) was that she could resume her dribble as long as she didn't "pick it up". I thought we discussed this in a previous thread, and that was the conclsion we came to. I've got to get my books, now and look it up.

Incidentally, at camp this weekend, I had the opportunity to use the knowledge we accumulated regarding stepping out on a dribble being OOB, even if the dribbler wasn't actually touching the ball when the foot was on the line. The coach was standing about 3 inches from the dribbler. I was right on the line, watching, but several feet back. The coach yells, "How can you tell if he was touching the ball from that far back?" "Coach, it's OOB even if he is not touching the ball at that moment." "That's not the way it's written!!" "Look it up, coach, in your Simplified and Illustrated. I'll explain later if you want." Man, it felt great to KNOW I was right!!!

[Tim Roden]

Originally posted by Oz Referee
There was also a rule (and I think it still applies) that a player may not leave the confines of the court to gain an advantage. This was mainly aimed at avoiding screens and escaping 3 second violations, but I would think that it couls apply to this case as well.

Keep in mind that I am talking FIBA rules here.

What you are talking about is a Technical foul in our book. We don't want to call that. Violation or nothing. I don't think that either call would be argued assuming that the the OOB was not on the table side of the court.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Oh,dear, have I been calling this wrong? I thought this rule (not referring to the out-of-bounds) was that she could resume her dribble as long as she didn't "pick it up". I thought we discussed this in a previous thread, and that was the conclsion we came to. I've got to get my books, now and look it up.[/B]

No, you're not wrong. What I said was that she could pick the ball up OR resume her dribble. Obviously, she can't pick it up and then start a new dribble.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Tim Roden

What you are talking about is a Technical foul in our book. We don't want to call that. Violation or nothing. I don't think that either call would be argued assuming that the the OOB was not on the table side of the court.

Let's not confuse things here. It is a technical foul to leave the floor in an obvious effort to gain an advantage. But it certainly isn't a technical foul to step OOB accidentally or involuntarily. In this play, we have absolutely nothing. Play on.

Oz, we rarely ever talk FIBA rules here. Usually, it's either NF or NCAA rules. If you do have a FIBA question, make sure you specify it as such.

[Oz Referee]

I understand that generally FIBA rules are not discussed here, however I am hoping to simply offer an alternative intepretation to the way that NF does things.

I am from Australia and we use FIBA rules at all levels (except pro), but I have gained many insights by reading comments relating to "your" rules, and I wsa hoping to return the favour.

It is not my intention to come across as "we do it this way, and this is better" I simply want to broaden peoples horizons (including my own).

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Oz Referee
It is not my intention to come across as "we do it this way, and this is better" I simply want to broaden peoples horizons (including my own).

And you certainly didn't. I just wanted to point out the differences and the standard since you're new to the board. No offense meant or taken.