partner giving fans obscene gesture

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

No, what you said was that "Partners don't do that." Maybe in your neck of the woods you and the rest of the good old boys adhere to some strict code of honor among thieves. But where I come from, officials are required to behave in a professional manner and that means policing ourselves. Saying that "Partners don't do that," is just a weak excuse for not taking care of business. UNDERSTAND?

Actually, any code of honor comes from my time in the service. I'm certainly not a "good ol boy". Most of my life was spent in New York and I don't know too many good ol boys with MBAs from Boston College. As I said, you need to watch your tone of voice when you speak to me. UNDERSTAND?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by TravelinMan

Actually, any code of honor comes from my time in the service. I'm certainly not a "good ol boy". Most of my life was spent in New York and I don't know too many good ol boys with MBAs from Boston College. As I said, you need to watch your tone of voice when you speak to me. UNDERSTAND?

Yes, I suppose I have spoken a bit harshly. I'm sorry if my tone offended you. Let me restate my position in a kinder, gentler tone.

I find the suggestion that an official should simply turn a blind eye to his or her partner's obscene gesture to the home crowd during a game on the basis that "Partners don't do that" to be refreshingly collegial. I had never thought of the role of a partner in terms of condoning one's bad behavior with silence. When viewed from that point of view, who better than a partner to help bury bodies? I mean really, what's a little obscene gesture now and then? Really? Is it all that bad? If it is, somebody else will take care of it, right? And all the bad will that this partner might create in the process of hanging himself, well, that's a pretty small price to pay in comparison to maintaining that esprit de corps that's so important among partners.

When taken to it's logical conclusion, this is the kind of "partnering" that's worthy of really admirable people like crooked politicians and morally bankrupt business executives. Who knows, Andy Fastow and Kenneth Lay might have made great basketball officials. Just keep a close eye on the association's retirement fund.

Not all "good ol boys" live in the sticks and drive rusty pick-ups.

[26 Year Gap]

Only bad things can come from not reporting the partner. First, do you want the assignor, the association, people reading the newspaper, etc. to hear about the event from someone OTHER than his partner first? Second, while it may be true that the guy will 'hang himself' eventually, do you want other crowds,players, coaches, etc. to be potential guinea pigs? Third, do you want another unsuspecting partner to end up in a situation that could be even worse? Fourth, do YOU want to end up ostracized because you DIDN'T report him? You'd report a player who was ejected who would give the finger to you or the crowd, so why would it be any different here? We all get painted by the same brush oftentimes. We don't need this brush.

Bad advice to keep silent.

[Rick82358]

Originally posted by TravelinMan
I would not report him. Partners don't do that. He will hang himself if he continues his foolish, immature ways.
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Bull****! A partner that engages in such unprofessional conduct brings dishonor and disrepute on me as his partner and the official's association that assigned us. His actions may well get me scratched from that school. His actions may cause my association to lose that school. In short, he's willfully causing me problems and potentially costing me money. He's made life more difficult for the next set of officials. He's degraded my passionate avocation. He's adding to the problems that we as officials all face from coaches, players and fans. You can bet your a$$ that my assigner is going to hear about it from me FIRST. And if I didn't, my assigner is going to have my head for letting him get blindsided when the coach or AD calls, and they will. They'll probably send video too. That's gonna cost me credibility and probably games from that assigner.
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Whoa, BACK OFF. You are coming on way too strong with me. UNDERSTAND? Like I said he will hang himself. That is ALL I said.
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No, what you said was that "Partners don't do that." Maybe in your neck of the woods you and the rest of the good old boys adhere to some strict code of honor among thieves. But where I come from, officials are required to behave in a professional manner and that means policing ourselves. Saying that "Partners don't do that," is just a weak excuse for not taking care of business. UNDERSTAND?


- Partners donot let partners drag down a crew if there is a game report it better be in there - and if your partner was the "R" and responsible for the report you better do a suplimental report because when that tape comes out - to the Asignor - to the assocication - to the State Athletic assoc. or even better on TV - you had better be covered because - "Surely we will all hang separeatly - or we will all hang together"

[johnfox]

believe it or not, this happened 2 years ago. my partner was then and still is the basketball chairperson of our area assoc. the matter went in front of the board and was dropped.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

Yes, I suppose I have spoken a bit harshly. I'm sorry if my tone offended you. Let me restate my position in a kinder, gentler tone.

I find the suggestion that an official should simply turn a blind eye to his or her partner's obscene gesture to the home crowd during a game on the basis that "Partners don't do that" to be refreshingly collegial. I had never thought of the role of a partner in terms of condoning one's bad behavior with silence. When viewed from that point of view, who better than a partner to help bury bodies? I mean really, what's a little obscene gesture now and then? Really? Is it all that bad? If it is, somebody else will take care of it, right? And all the bad will that this partner might create in the process of hanging himself, well, that's a pretty small price to pay in comparison to maintaining that esprit de corps that's so important among partners.

When taken to it's logical conclusion, this is the kind of "partnering" that's worthy of really admirable people like crooked politicians and morally bankrupt business executives. Who knows, Andy Fastow and Kenneth Lay might have made great basketball officials. Just keep a close eye on the association's retirement fund.

Not all "good ol boys" live in the sticks and drive rusty pick-ups.

BITS, now I will listen and try to answer your well thought out arguments for reporting this immature partner. I am not suggesting to turn a blind eye to your partner's behavior nor condoning his behavior through silence. I am suggesting a more direct approach - speaking to him directly about it. It may very well be that you end up telling him you are going to have to report this incident. But at least tell him to his face, not behind his back. Yes, I am loyal to a fault, and if this hurts me, so be it. I will not change. Peace.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by 26 Year Gap
Only bad things can come from not reporting the partner. First, do you want the assignor, the association, people reading the newspaper, etc. to hear about the event from someone OTHER than his partner first? Second, while it may be true that the guy will 'hang himself' eventually, do you want other crowds,players, coaches, etc. to be potential guinea pigs? Third, do you want another unsuspecting partner to end up in a situation that could be even worse? Fourth, do YOU want to end up ostracized because you DIDN'T report him? You'd report a player who was ejected who would give the finger to you or the crowd, so why would it be any different here? We all get painted by the same brush oftentimes. We don't need this brush.

Bad advice to keep silent.

Gap, as I said to BITS, I am NOT saying be silent. I am sorry if the group thought that is what I meant. Reporting my partner just had a very disloyal ring to it in my mind. What else do you "report" your partner for? Not performing up to your performance expectations? blowing a call? making a mistake? being late? (I've had to start a JV game alone). Where do you draw the line?

[26 Year Gap]

I think if something extraordinary like a bird flip takes place, it is easy to see it is over the line. I've had a partner show up as I am walking to the center circle to toss the ball. Those kinds of things show up in ratings.

[johnfox]

jcrow you weren't at that game. thing was as soon as we got in the dressing room, my partner told me he did it. i was defending him to the crowd, telling them he would not have done that. by his own admission, he did!

[JCrow]

JohnFox,

How do you know that I wasn't at the game? Didn't you see the stout fellow that looks like a young Ted Kennedy sitting behind the Visitors Bench in the 5th row?

Here's how I'd handle the situation. I wouldn't initially Report my partner. I accept all the valid reasons for doing so in the previous Posts. What I would do is this. I'd talk to my Partner and truthfully explain that what he did was inappropriate and might reflect negatively on us as a Team. I'd ask him to call the Assigner and explain the situation himself the next day. I'd also suggest that the Partner talk to the AD's and perhaps offer a letter of apology. I'd ask that he close the loop with me afterward contingent upon us ever working together, again.

If I didn't get a call in a few days....then I'd call the Assigner and tell him what's up. I always like to give a person a chance to do the right thing. I have to run...Dad and I are going to breakfast down at the "Legs and Eggs" Club in Providence.

[Rick82358]

J Crow,
Was that you sitting in front of me?

I find your response to be intellegent logical and a very good option - I am not sure that I could go that route on this one but inparticular, but it is something I will file away as an option for the future.