|
|||
hooper-
some more info would be nice. where were the refs from? was this an official school game? where these high school refs workign a middle school game? what did you mean when you said you didnt blame the refs for favoring one team over the other. I dont mean to sound defensive but the suggestion that I as a ref would "favor" one team over the other is so far from my brain that I cant even imagine it. what "exactly" did you say to the refs? and what was your demeanor and attitude when you said what you said. sometimes i know to ingore a coach just because of how he is talking to me. if he is being a spaz i tune him out, after i rule out the "T". communication isnt just what you said, it is four things: message, messenger, medium, and audience. lets talk message. i have to say that "call it tighter for safety" isnt a very clear statement of your complaint. That was probably a bad way to go at the issue. To me that says "coach is just complaining." Obviously, I am going to call a game to make sure it is safe. I dont think any ref is out there disregarding the safety of the kids. So that statement doesnt really say anything to a ref, in my opinion. now messenger. how were you acting? what had happened earlier? had you been doing a lot of complaining already? if so, maybe you got tuned out. medium isnt that relevant. now audience. the refs themselves. but i've already asked about that above. one thing, if you had actual observable physical injuries that you claim, call a time out, call the refs over (at this level they will come talk to you i would hope) and SHOW them. now it is time to be honest: how were your kids playing? just as rough? how would you have expected the game to be called? do you think calling it differently would have affected the play by the players (particularly at this level)? |
|
|||
Quote:
The rules don't change. The points of emphasis don't change from game to game. I've done this quite a bit, but I would like to know how the heck am I supposed to go into a game and adjust to the flow that the players set. Should I let two, three or four fouls go before I see what the flow is that the players set? I think I will stick with taking the emotional, compasionate part out and calling every game consistently (at least trying to the best I can) by using the rules and POEs.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden |
|
|||
just another ref, good point! most of the games in my area, freshman and under are for the newbies. I am a second year ref and get a few of these games here and there. I dont think they should put two 1st year refs in that kind of situation and that kind of pressure. The 2 middle school games I did the other night were by far the most intense games I have had all year. It kinda sounds like what this coach is talking about, intense, pressure filled game with two new refs possibly. Your a little intimidated as a first year ref with all the surroundings in that situation. Tough spot for both refs and coaches IMO and sometimes leads to this coaches thread!
|
|
|||
A similar thing happened at my son's game
this weekend. It was a 10-team tournament. Before my son's game (8th grade), against a rival, the refs decided to "let them play." This was covered in the captains meeting at mid-court during pregame. There were no incidences of overly rough play all day. In this game, however, we had two player ejections for what became increasingly aggressive play. It was a great contrast to other games that were called, for lack of a better word, normally. As a coach, and a ref, I do believe kids will play to the level of contact allowed by the refs (the same way some teams play up or down to the level of their opponents). As one example, many times during our JV/V games, we refs talk at the breaaks about "tightening things up" because "the play underneath is getting too aggressive." Of course, we want the kids to be able to play. And, of course, we make foul calls based on advantage/disadvantage. However, aggressive play begats aggressive play. Yes, coaches have a role in how their kids play. But what coach in his right mind is going to say,"I know they aren't calling fouls, but I want us to continue our conservative play and let them continue to bang us." Sorry, ain't gonna happen.
|
|
|||
Quote:
Consider the different dynamics of every game and tell me (us) you don't "adjust"? Yes a foul is a foul from Pee-Wee to NBA. Yet don't you adjust to: Full Court man-to-man from the opening A slick floor A dominant Post player with high elbows a team that closly guard by design a Team that emphasises screening One team that plays above the rim and the other cannot a rivelry game? The only way to have true consistency is to have the same two teams every night.
__________________
"Sports do not build character. They reveal it" - Heywood H. Broun "Officiating does not build character. It reveal's it" - Ref Daddy |
|
|||
Re: A similar thing happened at my son's game
Quote:
__________________
Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it. |
|
|||
CDAREF
More information on the game in question: It was at a tournament, 7th grade boys, the officials looked to be in their early 40s, both had State official's association patches. I didn't get the impression they were new at this. I'm not a yeller (as a coach.) In fact, I don't talk to the officials at all unless they ask me a question or I have a question. (My philosophy, in general, is that they run the show and I provide the cast.) I called a time-out and walked over to one of the refs - after our second player came out crying after a blow to the the head - and asked if they could call the game a little closer, watch the fouls, because kids were getting hurt. Ref said, "OK" and walked away. I thought about bringing our player over to talk with the ref too (the one who had just come out) but he was in tears and I didn't want to embarass him further (crying is not cool for a a 13 year old!) Maybe I should have brought him over though. The play of the game was rough - lots of reaching, body checks, elbows, pushing, grabbing, etc. I DO think that calling the game closer would have made a difference. I think the kids were testing the boundaries of what they could do (as teenagers will do sometimes) and even a few well-called fouls would have helped the kids go, "Hey, I guess I won't do that again." |
|
|||
hooper -- you've hit a nerve, obviously.
Here are some suggestions for the future. In one game I did, both coaches came to my partner and me together and said, "We're trying to help our kids learn to play with less contact. If you'd call it a little tighter, we'd appreciate it." You can also talk to the assignor, as others have suggested. The trick to getting what you want is to avoid certain tones of voice and certain phrases. If you say, "They're getting hurt" or "C'mon blow the whistle" or "this isn't football", the ref or assignor will just hit the mute switch, and you'll be talking to a brick wall. Also, there needs to be no suggestion that you're losing because of the refs. Furthermore, you have to avoid certain rule myths, such as "over the back" and "reaching in". Neither of these is agains tthe rules, and refs don't want to hear these kinds of ignorance from you. What you can say, especially to an assignor, is "other refs in this league have been more strict with the contact, and we like that to be consistent." "Yea, we won, but we felt like our kids were learning bad plays." "I've been working iwth my kids on playing clean defense, and when they get lazy or sloppy, I want them called for it." This gives the message that you want more calls in both directions. I can sympathize with your concern. And I agree that this can be a big issue at the 7th grade level. You have to approach it carefully in order to get consistency from game to game. |
|
|||
Quote:
Yet another name to add to the list of people who asked for advice but walked away unsatisified when told what they didn't want to hear. Let's see...I'll put your name right after my brother-in-law...as I recall I advised him against cashing in the kid's college funds to buy Enron "at the bottom". Anyways, good luck.
__________________
9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg |
|
|||
Quote:
It still comes down to this, IN EVERY GAME, all obvious violations are violations, contact that gains an advantage is a foul. Nothing on your list changes that, nor should it. |
|
|||
Another thing to consider is that these are young athletes with limited strength, speed, and skills. Just because a game looks rough and a player ends up in tears, doesn't mean that there fouls need to be called. Often at this level players end up on the floor more because of their own actions that the actions of their opponents. Another thing to consider, if these were veterans working the game, they may be used to a higher level of play. I notice, even in my varsity games, when we go from a 3A game to a 1A game we look like we're letting everything go. It looks that way because we get used to bigger, stronger athletes that can play through some contact that weaker athletes cannot and some nights it is hard to adjust. I agree that if you have a legitimate concern, talk to the assignor, but these are points that may be relevant to your game. |
|
|||
Quote:
Secondly it is your job as a coach to adjust to the way the game is being called, not the other way around. I have been in games where we do nothing but call fouls and the coaches complain. I do not tell players how to play offense or defense. I do not tell players how to dribble or to not dribble through players that are just standing still. I do not tell players how to defend a shot. The amount of fouls an official calls is not going to change the safety level of the game. As a matter of fact if players are not taught well they will get hurt either way. Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
|
|||
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
[B] Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
|||
Quote:
The coach in your example took the kid out of the game and obviously decided that the actions of his player were going to get him in more trouble. Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|