You must have a lot of time on your hands to come up with this horsesh!t.

Re: Re: Re: One colleague to another
 

Rut,
Don't write to me in that tone of print. :cool:
mick

LOL!!!
 

Anything for you Mick. ;)

Peace

you should never have to tell a coach why they got the "t". if they are raising heck, stay away from them and have your partner go tell them they lost their coaching box.

Re: Re: One colleague to another
 

For what it is worth, and it isn't worth much, you're falling into the same trap, Blindzebra, that Rut often falls into. When you say that "each and every post [Rut] makes is layered with arrogance," you simply are not telling the truth. Rut makes many posts, in many threads, that are gracious, insightful and valuable. Now it *is* true that Rut often makes posts that carry with it an arrogant tone -- even if he protests, unconvincingly, that he does not mean it that way. But your blanket characterization of him is just as inappropriate/unhelpful/wrong as the behavior for which you find reason to criticize him.

That's just my opinion, and I see that I'll not succeed in persuading either of you to say "oops" and move on, so I'll try to take my own advice and say: Oops, I've written too much here. It's time for me to move on.

So many times in print the tone and intent of the author is misconstrued.

I pretty much agree with Rut. I don't hand out Ts very often, but when I do, they are obviously earned. I try to talk things out, if possible, and don't have rabbit ears. I've gone whole years without more than one or two Ts. You MUST bust every player that deserves one, but I like to talk to coaches if possible.

This year, I had one or two earlier in the year, and both on players (slamming ball down, etc.). Last night, I had two simultaneous -- one on a player, and the other on an assistant 'coach' (if you want to call her that; she truly didn't have a clue about what was going on). The thing is, and other officials I've talked to about it this year agree, that coaches will usually shut up and coach after a technical and their team will be the better for it.

Last night's game was horrible -- one of the worst games I've ever worked, basketball wise. The team that got hit had scored 10 total at the time (late in the 3rd), yet scored 19 after the technicals. My point is that while I still recommend we all use the T judiciously, don't be afraid to use it early if its warranted. It could solve some problems for you and cause a better basketball game.

John,

Have you ever experienced a coach getting a T and then asking what he did to deserve it?
Have you ever experienced a coach asking what a player did to deserve a T and then come back and say the player didn't do what you said he did?
I agree, we shouldn't have to tell a coach. Unfortunately, I know that isn't the case in Arizona, Nevada, Maryland and DC. If I'm working a game in a conference with the seatbelt rule, my opinion is the appropriate person in my crew should tell the coach he/she must be seated, at a distance of at least 8 feet, and then show them the backside. In the league I work in where there isn't a seatbelt rule I don't think a non-calling official should say anything to the coach. Oh, in either situation I think, "coach he/she will be over in a few minutes and they can tell you" is appropriate. Nobody can explain why I give a T except me. If someone was to tell me they didn't think any answer is in order, I would readily agree with that. Although this is always my point of view, I will admit to being jaded this week due to a couple of crews I would call soft.

Being a guilty party and being a work in progress, I would hope we can focus on the basketball aspect of our opinions. We cannot accurately convey tone and delivery through typed words. We are already a different crowd just because we have the desire to do this anyway; there are a lot of strong personalities here.

What exactly do you say to the coach if your the non-calling official?

"You have lost your coaching box privilege"
- What if he/she doesn't know what this means?

"You have lost the right to stand."
- Not accurate because they can still stand during certain situations.

I would like to say something Short & Sweet to the coach and move on.

If it's the result of a direct "T" --> Coach, you may not use the coaching box because of the technical foul.

If it's the result of an indirect "T" --> Sorry,Coach. You may not use the coaching box because of the technical foul.

Re: Re: Re: One colleague to another
 

What you need to understand bgtg19 is that no matter what Rut says guys like BlindZebra will have a problem with it. It does not matter on way or the other what the comments are about or the topic. BlindZebra is going to find fault in the conversation. He is one of the many posters here that think everything they say is perfect or carries the right way. Rut writes the exact same way as many of these guys here and the same guys get upset when someone even thinks to say something to them. It does not matter what Rut's opinion is on this topic because he has the right to hold it. Then you get someone like BlindZebra and starts name calling because he has nothing better to do. Bgtg19 none of this is going to change that is what people do here.

PS2man

I've said the same thing...and then I was ganged up on. :D

I will be the first one to say, I'm not perfect or always right on this board, as an official and in life. I have actually learned some different points of view today by asking questions. Good stuff (rings)

At one time, I think I took Rut the wrong way and I finally realized he probably is just giving his opinions with as few keystrokes as possible. There is nothing really wrong with that. I will admit, I didn't have the same opinion of blindzebra because (embarassed) sometimes I get blindzebra and zebraman confused. :D I'm bad with names sometimes.

Tom - back to your original question (of which I almost forgot, because I've got those damn Village People songs rattling around in my head). You made an interesting point about most good officials having a strong personality. I think it's that very reason that an official needs to consider both cases - staying next to a coach, or removing him/her self from the situation. Most of the time a T is given in a confrontational or heated situation. As much as we try to make it "just another call", you'll have to admit, most of the time the adrenaline is flowing a little faster than the last travel call you made. Maybe you feel comfortable with staying next to the coach. Some officials need to get away. I heard of a game where the same official called a T on a player, then 2 different T's on the head coach, all in under 60 sec. One of the other officials I talked to said if there was a way he would've gotten in front of his partner and gotten him away from the situation, he probably could've saved at least the second T on the coach, who is one of the quieter and more respectful coaches in the league. So it's not just the coach who might need calming down, it might be your partner as well. This is something usually covered in (you guessed it) the pre-game. One thing I try to have our crew do after a T is issued is to have at least 2 officials get together for a moment to go over things such as who's the T on, who's shooting and which basket, do you want to stay tableside, etc. Each situation is different, and should be handled differently.

My point has always been we know that it is an emotional call or situation. I think we should not go out of our way to avoid the coach. You think if the coach is carrying a brick for an official after the T is not going to have one the first foul called and you stand next to the coach? I think we do way too much to avoid bad behavior from a coach instead of just doing our job. It is not our responsibility to "calm down the coach." That is the coach's responsibility to calm themselves down. I agree with Tommy that it is also one of my pet peeves to have partners try to explain things for me when I can speak for myself. I also do not try to explain things for my partners when they have a better look at something or they made a judgment on something I either did not see or know what happen. I used to think differently when we always went opposite table for every foul. Now that we go table side for every foul, most coaches are very aware of what happen and when they do not understand that is why you are there to give information. I remember when the table side change came into play, I was one of those that thought it was a bad idea because all coaches would do was b!tch and complain. I have found that coaches say almost nothing when you are standing right in front of them after a tough foul call. Then they behave when you are standing in from of them because they do not have the opportunity to show out across the court. Now when we are standing in front of them they know they have to watch their words and usually get the hint. Why treat a T any different?

Peace

I understand those who feel like they should go across and those who feel like they can stay.
Remember, my particular situation was in the second half and I didn't hesitate to walk across. My partner would not have been right in front of the coach anyway because it was the second half. He went into the backcourt; there was no reason for this. He was the R and this was a wake-up call for me - I will never let someone get away with a lame pre-game again. I thought he was better than that. At this point he probably thinks I'm a hard a$$, but I think he is just soft for the situation in this thread and many more plays during the game.