In the immortal words of Monty Python's Flying Circus: "That's where your claim falls to the ground." ;)

The only thing that bugs me about this situation is when the coach tells me BEFORE the game to watch something. I lose respect for him/her immediately and I am less likely to look for it.

Nate, you completely missed Rocky's point in # 1. So be it.

However, the sooner you get over worrying about what any coach says or thinks, the sooner you'll turn into a much better official.

Jmo. Take it fwiw. Or ignore it completely. Don't matter to me one way or t'other. [/B][/QUOTE]

No please tell me how I completely missed the point on #1. Rocky says that I shouldnt even be watching what goes on with player A1 in the backcourt b/c he/she is unguarded. He says I should be looking down the floor where the D is. How did I miss understand?? I think this is probably the wierdest comment I have ever heard. Why? Just b/c A1 is in the backcourt uncontested doesnt give him/her the right to violate the rules. If A2 steps inbounds then passes, according to Rocky I shouldnt be able to see that either b/c I should be lookin upcourt. To me that would be inexcusable.

#2. I dont care what the coach says or thinks, what I do care about is doing my job. I am not doing my job if I allow the rules to be broken. Palming in the backcourt is a violation of the rules and until the clause is put in the book that it shouldnt be called unless the dribbler is guarded then I think we have the responsiblity to make the call.

I read a lot on this site and from what I can gather a lot of coaches in many areas are clueless to the game. However, I have the priviledge of working in a District with experienced/veteran coaches. I have only had to put the "stop" sign up once this year. NO T's. So when a coach says can you watch #24 he/she is holding I respond with "yes..or a head nod." Why? Because I have been watching the game, but I havent yet seen holding, but if I do I will call it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

Quote:

To answer #1: Why would I see it. B/c I am the T official and I am also watching for other violations. You mean as the T, you simply look down court while the ball is being inbounded? I guess since there is no pressure the throw-in-violation shouldnt be called either?? I guess you wouldnt see a dribbler move his/her pivot foot either??? WOW. I hope what you meant is that it almost never happens and thats why you arent looking for it..not because you arent watching the ball in your area, guarded or unguarded. #2..."game interupters." Another broad stroke with a slim brush. You consider them game interupters the opposing coach considers a walk/palm/throw-in violation in the backcourt a TURNOVER. I more possesion for his/her team.

Anyone besides me think that someone is missing the point here??? I think I can honestly say that I don't "watch the ball, guarded or unguarded" at any time...I referee the defense. When the defense is close to the player (and no that doesn't just mean within 6 feet) with the ball, I will see the pivot foot move or the carrying violation that allows the player to get around the defense...if the defense is 45 feet away, I will probably miss that carrying violation. And I have never once been nailed for that by any evaluator or supervisor...again, those things are called "game interrupters" and no one wants to see them called - not even the coach who hollers about it that one time...they just like to holler.

WHYYYYYYYYYEMMMMSEEEAYE!

It's fun to stay at the

WHYYYYYYYYYEMMMMSEEEAYE!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops Quote: To answer #1: Why would I see it. B/c I am the T official and I am also watching for other violations. You mean as the T, you simply look down court while the ball is being inbounded? I guess since there is no pressure the throw-in-violation shouldnt be called either?? I guess you wouldnt see a dribbler move his/her pivot foot either??? WOW. I hope what you meant is that it almost never happens and thats why you arent looking for it..not because you arent watching the ball in your area, guarded or unguarded. #2..."game interupters." Another broad stroke with a slim brush. You consider them game interupters the opposing coach considers a walk/palm/throw-in violation in the backcourt a TURNOVER. I more possesion for his/her team. Anyone besides me think that someone is missing the point here??? I think I can honestly say that I don't "watch the ball, guarded or unguarded" at any time...I referee the defense. When the defense is close to the player (and no that doesn't just mean within 6 feet) with the ball, I will see the pivot foot move or the carrying violation that allows the player to get around the defense...if the defense is 45 feet away, I will probably miss that carrying violation. And I have never once been nailed for that by any evaluator or supervisor...again, those things are called "game interrupters" and no one wants to see them called - not even the coach who hollers about it that one time...they just like to holler.

You watch the Defense..wow. Sorry but I'm sure you are a great official (no sarcasm intended) but how then do catch any of the offensive fouls/violations??

Nate,

If the trail official is properly "trailing" the play, they can ref "one play ahead" which means that you aren't focusing on the dribbler. You can still see the dribbler out of the corner of your eye and you would still notice if they palmed the ball real bad. But why would you be focusing solely on the dribbler (especially in 2-person) when they are 9 other players that need eyes on them?

Whether or not you wish to call that unguarded palming violation is up to you. Officials at higher levels often don't call a player for a palm or travel in the B/C when they aren't guarded. They aren't "wrong" for not calling it - that it is what they have been told to do by their supervisors. It might be a more appropriate call at the high school level.... maybe, maybe not.

Even at the HS level, I'm not calling an unguarded carry unless it's so bad that it sends shivers down my spine. :p

Z

You watch the offense...wow...sorry but i am sure YOU are a great official - no sarcasm inteded here, either (honestly) - but how then do you catch any of the defensive fouls?

This is my favorite part!

HEY!
HEY!
HEY! HEY! HEY!
It's fun to stay at the
WHYYYYYYYYYEMMMMSEEEAYE!

Thanks for the advise Z. I never said that I watch the ball or the offense. As the trail official you can and should see the ball as well as the offense and D 75ft away on the other end, but they should be of no concern to you when the ball is being inbounded and in the far backcourt IMO. Rocky said that you should be looking ahead. Well if I am handing the ball to A1 to inbound, I am watching to see that it is put in play properly 1st then my eyes go to A2 who just received the ball--did he walk,palm,pick-up dribble?? I can see these things. Once it nears mid court then you pick up the action in your primary.

I didnt say that I turn to watch the offense. You on the other hand said that as the trail, in the backcourt, I shouldnt be able to see a palming violation or travelling b/c I should turn and watch the D.

Actually you did say that you turn to see what the offensive player is doing - that would be watching the offense...and I didn't say that I won't SEE the palming violation, just that I won't CALL it...basic situation where you ain't gonna see it our way, and we ain't gonna see it your way. Nuff said.

And just for Dan..."In the Navy, you can sail the seven seas, In the navy, you can put your mind at ease..."

We want you!
We want you!
We want you for a new recruit!

And let's dedicate this 1 to JR:

Macho, macho man
I've got to be, a macho man
Macho, macho man
I've got to be a macho man!

Man, I loved you (in a manly kinda way, of course) when you and the guys did that one. And when you spelled out Y-M-C-A with your arms and legs...well, I just went kinda tingly. All over.

It really is a shame you went bald. And right at the apex of your popularity too.....

Nate,
The idea being discussed is to referee the defense. If you are concentrating on the defense, you are going to see plays as they happen, as fouls begin with legal guarding position. Yes, you do need to watch offensive players for violations, but your primary area for concentration should be on the defensive players. Also, it has to be one horrible looking carry to call in the backcourt. The offense is gaining no advantage by doing it.
Dan, please tell us you're looking up the words to all of these songs...you don't actually know them do you?