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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 08:59am
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I have been searching the NCAA rulebook this morning for something to cover this situation directly.

Player had completed his dribble and was attempting to pass to a team mate. Just as the pass was being made the team mate moved away and the ball handler tried to stop the pass but fumbled it forward. He ran a couple of steps and picked the ball up then passed it away without pivoting again. I know we do not punish for a missed shot attempt but what about here? Travel or no call?

Smoke
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 09:10am
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Under NFHS Rules, a fumble anytime is a No Call.

If he actually passed it and ran over and picked it up after it bounced.....I got a Double Dribble.

If he threw it and ran over and picked it up before it bounces.....I got a Travel.

Is that right? A "Pass" by definition has to be to another Player.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 09:15am
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Further to clarify how I seen the play. He was attempting to regain control of his pass and fumbled it forward. Then he had to run a few step to gather it up. So it would be similar to your first violation (DD) except there was no second dribble. NCAA rules here.

[Edited by SmokeEater on Jan 11th, 2006 at 09:29 AM]
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 09:25am
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
Further to clarify how I seen the play. He was attempting to regain control of his pass and fumbled it forward. Then he had to run a few step to gather it up. So it would be similar to your first violation (DD) except there was no second cribble. NCAA rules here.
I believe you are incorrect. If the ball is fumbled then the player may recover the fumbled ball.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 09:29am
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Incorrect about what? I am askng what call should be made and the reference support from the rule book. If there is any of course.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 09:39am
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I think the timing of how this occurred is critical.

If the player fumbled the ball AS they were ending their dribble, I'd allow them to recover the ball.

If the player clearly ended their dribble, then attempted a pass and lost the ball, I'd have an illegal dribble when they touched the ball again. (If the fumbled pass just bounces along until picked up by someone or going out of bounds, we play on. If the player who threw the fumbled pass touches it again, I'd have an illegal dribble.)

NCAA Rule 4, Sec. 18, Art. 4 b ...the dribble ends when the dribbler touches the ball with both hands. (Page 71 in the book.)

Now, A.R. 14 (b) says a player may recover a dribble that is fumbled when they attempt to complete their dribble. But they may not dribble again.

This is why timing is critical. In your scenario, I imagined a player clearly ending their dribble and then attempting a pass. In that case, I'd have an illegal dribble if they touch the "fumbled pass" again.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 09:48am
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ty Nu1

Well described and I understand clearly what you are saying. You are correct in your assumption of how the play developed. Dribble was clearly ended and the pass attempt was tehn fumbled. I called a Travel.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 10:03am
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
the ball handler tried to stop the pass but fumbled it forward.
You need to dedcide whether it was an attempted pass or a fumble. If it's the former, it's a violation. If the latter, it's legal.

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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 10:59am
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
the ball handler tried to stop the pass but fumbled it forward.
You need to dedcide whether it was an attempted pass or a fumble. If it's the former, it's a violation. If the latter, it's legal.

Is this true in all situations regarding a fumble? If its an attempted pass its a violation, if its a fumble you play on?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
Further to clarify how I seen the play. He was attempting to regain control of his pass and fumbled it forward. Then he had to run a few step to gather it up. So it would be similar to your first violation (DD) except there was no second dribble. NCAA rules here.
Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
Incorrect about what? I am askng what call should be made and the reference support from the rule book. If there is any of course.
I was saying that you are incorrect to say that it is similar to the Double Dribble because it is not a dribble when it is fumbled.

As Bob Jenkins said correctly, you have to determine if it's a fumble or not.

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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:04am
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Quote:
Originally posted by PAOfficial
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
the ball handler tried to stop the pass but fumbled it forward.
You need to dedcide whether it was an attempted pass or a fumble. If it's the former, it's a violation. If the latter, it's legal.

Is this true in all situations regarding a fumble? If its an attempted pass its a violation, if its a fumble you play on?
Yes it is true. You can always recover a fumble.

To often I see officials calling travels when the player does not have control of the ball. Just because it looks ugly doesn't mean anything!
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:28am
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What if they leave the floor (jump) and then fumble and ...

a) land, then catch the ball before it bounces
b) land, then pick up the ball after it lands.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:33am
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Quote:
Originally posted by PAOfficial
What if they leave the floor (jump) and then fumble and ...

a) land, then catch the ball before it bounces
b) land, then pick up the ball after it lands.
A) Legal
B) Legal

Player Control ends when you fumble the ball.

c) regain control in the air and land - Legal
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 12:03pm
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That's a bad pass, not a fumble

Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
Further to clarify how I seen the play. He was attempting to regain control of his pass and fumbled it forward. Then he had to run a few step to gather it up. So it would be similar to your first violation (DD) except there was no second dribble. NCAA rules here.

[Edited by SmokeEater on Jan 11th, 2006 at 09:29 AM]
If it looks like a badly executed pass . . .

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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 03:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCrow
If he threw it and ran over and picked it up before it bounces.....I got a Travel.
Nope, that's an illegal dribble.

With one exception, you must be holding the ball to travel.
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