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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 01:44pm
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Another thread has veered into a discussion of off-ball calls, so I thought I'd raise a few of my own questions. How many off-ball calls are there per game in the various types of games? How should partners communicate regarding off-ball coverage, and off-ball calls?

How should partners smoothly switch from on- to off- so that everything important gets covered?

Here's a biggie -- how often do you find that your partner emphasizes off-ball coverage in the pre-game, but then never stops ball-watching through-out the game? I'm seeing a lot of this, this year. Anyone else?
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker


How should partners smoothly switch from on- to off- so that everything important gets covered?

Here's a biggie -- how often do you find that your partner emphasizes off-ball coverage in the pre-game, but then never stops ball-watching through-out the game? I'm seeing a lot of this, this year. Anyone else?
How do you know that a partner is "ball watching"?

The answer to that question partly answers the other question I left here.
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 01:59pm
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Off Ball

As I gain more experience I find that this is an area, partner ball watching, that sometimes frustrates me. The latest example -I am L , ball is right in front of me along the endline. Trail is opposite side and about 8 players between him and ball. I call blocking . Partner then double whistles , runs over to me and starts a very animated discussion about how travelling occurred first. I reply "you could see that from out there ?" Partner replies I had a clear view of it. Okay.......

I have been taught when I pick the ball up either square shoulders or pick up a count. So I have received feedback from some partners that they like that. So until informed otherwise I will keep doing that.

On the topic of the full court refs I have no suggestions cause IMO those who ballhawk and don't realize it don't care and talking to them is like talking to a wall that talks back.

Just saw Dan refs post. I know my partner is ball watching when they consistently make calls in my area cause they didn't like my no call or didn't agree with my call.
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 02:24pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker


How should partners smoothly switch from on- to off- so that everything important gets covered?

Here's a biggie -- how often do you find that your partner emphasizes off-ball coverage in the pre-game, but then never stops ball-watching through-out the game? I'm seeing a lot of this, this year. Anyone else?
How do you know that a partner is "ball watching"?

The answer to that question partly answers the other question I left here.
I know, because I'm "partner-watching". One of my PPOE's this year is Being a Good Partner** I'm trying to do a lot of eye contact, and especially when the ball is in the grey area between lead's primary and trail's primary. I want to know when to switch from on- to off- or vice versa. There are games where there's too much action for much of this, but in general I'm managing to get a little peek quite a bit. At one camp I attended there was one clinician who was demonstrating how to have "four-eye-contact" in transition and during play, as the ball moved around, and then on whistles. I like that, and wish I could do more of it. So that's what brings up the question.

**Seems like I'm thinking more and more in Capitals. I guess I've been reading too much Winnie the Pooh!).
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 02:27pm
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I think you see this with more new officials. They are watching the ball most of the game. This guy I was working with last night has been officiating for three years. He calls a foul from the trail position in the post right in front of me, because he saw the defender fall down. I try not to get upset because I know I did this too when I first started.
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 02:56pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ref-X
I think you see this with more new officials. They are watching the ball most of the game. This guy I was working with last night has been officiating for three years. He calls a foul from the trail position in the post right in front of me, because he saw the defender fall down. I try not to get upset because I know I did this too when I first started.
IMO, I think this goes both ways.
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 02:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ref-X
I think you see this with more new officials. They are watching the ball most of the game. This guy I was working with last night has been officiating for three years. He calls a foul from the trail position in the post right in front of me, because he saw the defender fall down. I try not to get upset because I know I did this too when I first started.
Yea, in general you're right (especially the part about being patient since I know I did it too!!)

But I'm finding that a certain percentage of vets SAY the words about looking off-ball, but they don't do it. In fact, I had one partner that I finally just watched off- ball the whole game. I mean, someone had to!!
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 03:11pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker


How should partners smoothly switch from on- to off- so that everything important gets covered?

Here's a biggie -- how often do you find that your partner emphasizes off-ball coverage in the pre-game, but then never stops ball-watching through-out the game? I'm seeing a lot of this, this year. Anyone else?
How do you know that a partner is "ball watching"?

The answer to that question partly answers the other question I left here.
I know, because I'm "partner-watching". One of my PPOE's this year is Being a Good Partner** I'm trying to do a lot of eye contact, and especially when the ball is in the grey area between lead's primary and trail's primary. I want to know when to switch from on- to off- or vice versa. There are games where there's too much action for much of this, but in general I'm managing to get a little peek quite a bit. At one camp I attended there was one clinician who was demonstrating how to have "four-eye-contact" in transition and during play, as the ball moved around, and then on whistles. I like that, and wish I could do more of it. So that's what brings up the question.

**Seems like I'm thinking more and more in Capitals. I guess I've been reading too much Winnie the Pooh!).
Give the lady a cookie...or a pot of honey.
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 03:12pm
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If you're staying in your area, you are officiating off ball. As far as talking about it in pregame, we do when we talk about staying in our area. Often during time outs or the quarter break we'll talk for a second about illegal screens or pushing on the block, especially if there's a certain match up that seems to be getting rough. Also, some of this is team specific. There's one team I officiate a lot in our area that runs a lot of screens in their offense. The do a nice job of screening but as the game goes on and the players get tired, the screens get a little sloppy. When working them I try to remember to talk to my partners about it.
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 05:18pm
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This is a great subject. A long time ago Dave Libbey told us there are two games: on-ball and off-ball. We use advantage/disadvantage on-ball and call contact off-ball.
I have more but I have to go into a game. What would I do without technology; I'm typing this on my phone!
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Old Mon Jan 09, 2006, 07:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
If you're staying in your area, you are officiating off ball.
In general, I agree, with this one exception. As I've been partner-watching, I've seen a few times when my partner is clearly screened from seeing a foul, and then I'll call it, even out of my area. It's been about four or five times during the season so far. One time, my partner had seen the contact and intended to pass on it, so I shouldn't have called it. The other three, partner made a point of saying that they thought there was something there, but couldn't tell for sure, and they were glad I called it. I tried to see the foul and then look at P before blowing it. I know this isn't leading to ball-watching, since I have had two different evals that commented on how well I watched off-ball.

So I have called a few out of my area, but mostly I'm not looking.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2006, 02:03am
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My partner and I have a game within the game, where we keep track of the "money" calls.

Most of which are of the off ball variety. Not only is it fun, but it helps us focused on off ball coverage and it leads to us calling a consistent game on both ends.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2006, 08:06am
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Since we are on the subject of "off ball" how much (or little) do ya'll let go in the post? Do you let the leaning and slight pushing go? How about hooking the arm? I'm still relatively new at this, it's my fourth year. I tend to let most of it go uncalled and have not been called down for it. How about you seniors?
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2006, 09:26am
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Quote:
Originally posted by cropduster
Since we are on the subject of "off ball" how much (or little) do ya'll let go in the post? Do you let the leaning and slight pushing go? How about hooking the arm? I'm still relatively new at this, it's my fourth year. I tend to let most of it go uncalled and have not been called down for it. How about you seniors?
Call it. Call it early and often, if you have to.

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Old Tue Jan 10, 2006, 09:54am
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Quote:
Originally posted by cropduster
Since we are on the subject of "off ball" how much (or little) do ya'll let go in the post? Do you let the leaning and slight pushing go? How about hooking the arm? I'm still relatively new at this, it's my fourth year. I tend to let most of it go uncalled and have not been called down for it. How about you seniors?
Look for displacement, advantage/disadvantage, watch for frustration or revenge. Go watch a lot of games in your local schools to see how others are calling it.
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