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[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Cager ref 1989
See. That's what's wrong with us officials. We won't call it like it should be called.

Put me down in the "wrong official" column too fwiw. I'd never dream of calling this particular violation at exactly the 10 second mark.

How do you call 3-second violations? Right by the book also?

[Cager ref 1989]

Simply if the player remains in lane more than 3 sec and is making no attempt to exit lane. I will voice "LANE" to them when they stop in the lane to allow them the opportunity to exit. If no movement to exit I give them a second voice "LANE", again if no movement to exit then it's a violation. (They have been in there approximately 4.5 seconds at this time) I don't have a problem with calling lane violations but that's another thread...

[lukealex]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9..9 1/2..9 3/4.."shoot the dang ball already!"..9 7/8.....

I'm pretty sure there was also some humor in this thread

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Cager ref 1989
Simply if the player remains in lane more than 3 sec and is making no attempt to exit lane. I will voice "LANE" to them when they stop in the lane to allow them the opportunity to exit. If no movement to exit I give them a second voice "LANE", again if no movement to exit then it's a violation. (They have been in there approximately 4.5 seconds at this time) I don't have a problem with calling lane violations but that's another thread...

Now you got me confused.....

What happened to "See. That's what's wrong with us officials. We won't call it like it should be called" or "Just blow the whistle when it's warranted".

What's your rationale for calling one time violation strictly by rule and then not calling a different time violation the same way?

[lukealex]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Now you got me confused.....

What happened to "See. That's what's wrong with us officials. We won't call it like it should be called" or "Just blow the whistle when it's warranted".

What's your rationale for calling one time violation strictly by rule and then not calling a different time violation the same way?

I agree, call the three second violation because a player could be gaining an advantage by camping in the lane and call it at 3 seconds. If a player is taking more than 10 seconds on a free throw, he isn't gaining a huge advantage, he still has to shoot the ball. The rim won't move closer if he waits longer.

In this case, the free throw violation seems to be more lenient, but is and should still be called at 10 seconds.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by lukealex
[/B]

I agree, call the three second violation because a player could be gaining an advantage by camping in the lane and call it at 3 seconds.
[/B][/QUOTE]Please note that I never said that I would call that particular violation right at 3 seconds. I personally wouldn't call it in all situations. Or even in most situations.

I was just wondering why Cager was using a different philosophy for each of the calls.

[lukealex]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Please note that I never said that I would call that particular violation right at 3 seconds. I personally wouldn't call it in all situations. Or even in most situations.

I was just wondering why Cager was using a different philosophy for each of the calls.

I agree with you again, I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone calls or should call right at 3 seconds or every time. Sorry for the confusion.

[johnny1784]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Put me down in the "wrong official" column too fwiw. I'd never dream of calling this particular violation at exactly the 10 second mark.

How do you call 3-second violations? Right by the book also?

Yes, I call it right by the book (NFHS & CBOA) and I use a 4 second count to be sure it was a legit 3 for the violation.

If the player is making an attempt to get out of the key, no violation and if possible or necessary, use preventive measures by warning the player(s) before reaching the 3 second violation.

What is the advantage?

The advantage gained by the offense changing the way a defense would defend if the offensive players were in the key longer than allowed.

Officials pre-game to include judgment calls to be the same through out the entire game, right?

[johnny1784]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Now you got me confused.....

What happened to "See. That's what's wrong with us officials. We won't call it like it should be called" or "Just blow the whistle when it's warranted".

What's your rationale for calling one time violation strictly by rule and then not calling a different time violation the same way?

Answer: an inconsistent official.

[Rich]

Originally posted by johnny1784

Yes, I call it right by the book (NFHS & CBOA) and I use a 4 second count to be sure it was a legit 3 for the violation.

If the player is making an attempt to get out of the key, no violation and if possible or necessary, use preventive measures by warning the player(s) before reaching the 3 second violation.

What is the advantage?

The advantage gained by the offense changing the way a defense would defend if the offensive players were in the key longer than allowed.

Officials pre-game to include judgment calls to be the same through out the entire game, right?

Haven't called a three second violation in a varsity game in 2 seasons now. Do these really happen often?

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Cager ref 1989
See. That's what's wrong with us officials. We won't call it like it should be called.

How many technical fouls have you called for flopping?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
[/B]

Haven't called a three second violation in a varsity game in 2 seasons now. Do these really happen often? [/B][/QUOTE]Yup, about once every 3 seasons.

Get ready, Rich. Sometime this year.....

[wwcfoa43]

In 14 years I have never called a 10 second violation on a free throw. I have had one youth game that was running time (except for last minute) where the coach purposely asked the player to wait as long as possible to consume time. In that case I had to watch how long he took so there would be no advantage.

Violating the 10 seconds for free throws does not result in an advantage so I was told early in my career to not call it, ever. I suppose if the player begins making a travesty of the game you could ask them to shoot and then use the violation as a last report. I have never had to do this.

One of the big reasons to not call it is that it is seldom abused. If this were a bugger problem with people taking a long time then perhaps I would have to rethink this.

I have even had a coach ask during a free throw "How long does the player get?" After the throw I told him matter-of-factly "As long as he wants coach."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by wwcfoa43
I have even had a coach ask during a free throw "How long does the player get?" After the throw I told him matter-of-factly "As long as he wants coach."

That one could be a mistake imo. What are you gonna do if he tells one of his players to just stand at the FT line and just hold the ball? You're also admitting to that coach that you're ignoring a very plainly written rule.

I think it's better in these case to just nod your head to show the coach that you're listening, or make a very brief comment like "I'll watch for it, coach". Iow, it's OK to do it but don't admit it.

[wwcfoa43]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

That one could be a mistake imo. What are you gonna do if he tells one of his players to just stand at the FT line and just hold the ball? You're also admitting to that coach that you're ignoring a very plainly written rule.

I think it's better in these case to just nod your head to show the coach that you're listening, or make a very brief comment like "I'll watch for it, coach". Iow, it's OK to do it but don't admit it.

Perhaps I should have used the phrase "As long as he needs" so that the coach could not use a literal interpretation against me.

I do agree that there are times when we tell coaches that "we will look for it" when we have a different view of what is happening on the court. This is okay because we are not really misleading them.

In this case I think it is a bad idea to say "I will look for it." The coach knows you are either ignoring the rule or cannot count to 10. If you tell him that you are counting and do not then you leave him thinking that you cannot count (or worse that you lied to him!)

In this particular game I knew the coach would not try and use this against me and what I was doing was explaining why the player was allowed longer than 10 seconds to shoot. By being honest I allowed him to stop complaining about my "poor counting skills."