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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 03, 2005, 11:31am
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My little brother was playing in his first ever varsity game last night, and being that I'm not working until my winter break, I went to go see him play. So you know it's going to be a long night, when the three officials take off their jackets, two of them have a v-neck on and one has a collar. OK..give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he forgot he shirt. But as the game went on..oo boy. A synopsis of some of the things that happened:

(1) Loose ball, ball rolling on the ground with both teams going after it, no control: TRAVEL.

(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

(3) Technical foul on a coach for calling a play.

(4) A foul on #10 for either team, when reported to the table, was a 5 and a 5 on both hands (i.e., what would be "55" in two-hand reporting).

(5) And the best one: Black 50 got his 5th foul. Table tells the calling official, who then does nothing. Doesn't tell the player, doesn't tell the coach. Nothing. What does coach do? Tells the player to stay in the game until both the player and coach are told...he stayed in for both foul shots until the officials realized what happened.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 03, 2005, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
My little brother was playing in his first ever varsity game last night, and being that I'm not working until my winter break, I went to go see him play. So you know it's going to be a long night, when the three officials take off their jackets, two of them have a v-neck on and one has a collar. OK..give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he forgot he shirt. But as the game went on..oo boy. A synopsis of some of the things that happened:

(1) Loose ball, ball rolling on the ground with both teams going after it, no control: TRAVEL.

(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

(3) Technical foul on a coach for calling a play.

(4) A foul on #10 for either team, when reported to the table, was a 5 and a 5 on both hands (i.e., what would be "55" in two-hand reporting).

(5) And the best one: Black 50 got his 5th foul. Table tells the calling official, who then does nothing. Doesn't tell the player, doesn't tell the coach. Nothing. What does coach do? Tells the player to stay in the game until both the player and coach are told...he stayed in for both foul shots until the officials realized what happened.

Something tells my your brother played on the Black team. Still, the stuff you're describing is pretty frustrating. Was it all one official? Do you know these refs? Are you in their association? This was VARSITY!?!? Wow.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 03, 2005, 11:48am
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*picks ref, throws him out, replaces him with a vacum cleaner* it'll atleast clean up a bit while doing a bad job

This is just annoying, put a guy like this in varsity *sighs*

I only have one who is worse :P when I played, we're down with 1, 6 seconds left, grabs the ball, our center makes a baseball pass, our PG runs on it. And the ref comes jogging with his back towards the ball and players, ball hits his back, goes out. Other team gets trow-in, bounces it around for 6 seconds, game over.
He didn't even look at the play, were was he going, like a walk in the park, argh
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 03, 2005, 01:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
My little brother was playing in his first ever varsity game last night, and being that I'm not working until my winter break, I went to go see him play. So you know it's going to be a long night, when the three officials take off their jackets, two of them have a v-neck on and one has a collar. OK..give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he forgot he shirt. But as the game went on..oo boy. A synopsis of some of the things that happened:

(1) Loose ball, ball rolling on the ground with both teams going after it, no control: TRAVEL.

(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

(3) Technical foul on a coach for calling a play.

(4) A foul on #10 for either team, when reported to the table, was a 5 and a 5 on both hands (i.e., what would be "55" in two-hand reporting).

(5) And the best one: Black 50 got his 5th foul. Table tells the calling official, who then does nothing. Doesn't tell the player, doesn't tell the coach. Nothing. What does coach do? Tells the player to stay in the game until both the player and coach are told...he stayed in for both foul shots until the officials realized what happened.

Something tells my your brother played on the Black team. Still, the stuff you're describing is pretty frustrating. Was it all one official? Do you know these refs? Are you in their association? This was VARSITY!?!? Wow.
Yea my brother was on the black team. They lost by 25, but even from the sampling I posted, the officials did not cost them the game. They played a much stronger, phsyical, and just superior team.

It was a combination of the whole crew, and I had never seen any of them before (different association, school the game was at was about 30 miles from my association). But yea, this was varsity.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 03, 2005, 01:24pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
My little brother was playing in his first ever varsity game last night, and being that I'm not working until my winter break, I went to go see him play. So you know it's going to be a long night, when the three officials take off their jackets, two of them have a v-neck on and one has a collar. OK..give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he forgot he shirt. But as the game went on..oo boy. A synopsis of some of the things that happened:

(1) Loose ball, ball rolling on the ground with both teams going after it, no control: TRAVEL.

(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

(3) Technical foul on a coach for calling a play.

(4) A foul on #10 for either team, when reported to the table, was a 5 and a 5 on both hands (i.e., what would be "55" in two-hand reporting).

(5) And the best one: Black 50 got his 5th foul. Table tells the calling official, who then does nothing. Doesn't tell the player, doesn't tell the coach. Nothing. What does coach do? Tells the player to stay in the game until both the player and coach are told...he stayed in for both foul shots until the officials realized what happened.

Something tells my your brother played on the Black team. Still, the stuff you're describing is pretty frustrating. Was it all one official? Do you know these refs? Are you in their association? This was VARSITY!?!? Wow.
Yea my brother was on the black team. They lost by 25, but even from the sampling I posted, the officials did not cost them the game. They played a much stronger, phsyical, and just superior team.

It was a combination of the whole crew, and I had never seen any of them before (different association, school the game was at was about 30 miles from my association). But yea, this was varsity.
Yea, you're not blaming the refs. Just appalled. as any of us would probably have been. The only thing to do is get in, get done, get out. even if you're just a fan.

If your brother or his teammates asks about anything, you could legitimately say, "well, they must do things differently there. Around here, you won't have to give that one up." That lets then know you think it was a lousy situation, without you having to actually say so.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 04, 2005, 12:33am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44


(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

What's your beef with this one? I agree that the double-handed reporting is not a proper mechanic (never in NFHS although I've heard that a couple college camps were advocating it), but this call might have been correct.

After the holding call on Black 44, we were in a dead ball situation. Black 44 then pushed White 22. Perhaps the official called an intentional technical foul? In that case, we would have done them in order which means that we'd shoot two for the double bonus followed by 2 for the technical foul. White would then get a throw-in at halfcourt opposite the table.

Z
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 04, 2005, 12:48am
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44


(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

What's your beef with this one? I agree that the double-handed reporting is not a proper mechanic (never in NFHS although I've heard that a couple college camps were advocating it), but this call might have been correct.

After the holding call on Black 44, we were in a dead ball situation. Black 44 then pushed White 22. Perhaps the official called an intentional technical foul? In that case, we would have done them in order which means that we'd shoot two for the double bonus followed by 2 for the technical foul. White would then get a throw-in at halfcourt opposite the table.

Z
I was wondering the same thing as you z...I don't see a problem with this call.

It might be interesting to hear where the officials took the ball OOB though...and if the officials cleared the lanes for the FTs.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 07, 2005, 07:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44


(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

What's your beef with this one? I agree that the double-handed reporting is not a proper mechanic (never in NFHS although I've heard that a couple college camps were advocating it), but this call might have been correct.

After the holding call on Black 44, we were in a dead ball situation. Black 44 then pushed White 22. Perhaps the official called an intentional technical foul? In that case, we would have done them in order which means that we'd shoot two for the double bonus followed by 2 for the technical foul. White would then get a throw-in at halfcourt opposite the table.

Z
I was wondering the same thing as you z...I don't see a problem with this call.

It might be interesting to hear where the officials took the ball OOB though...and if the officials cleared the lanes for the FTs.
I think the problem with this one is the dead ball foul should be a T.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 07, 2005, 07:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44


(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

What's your beef with this one? I agree that the double-handed reporting is not a proper mechanic (never in NFHS although I've heard that a couple college camps were advocating it), but this call might have been correct.

After the holding call on Black 44, we were in a dead ball situation. Black 44 then pushed White 22. Perhaps the official called an intentional technical foul? In that case, we would have done them in order which means that we'd shoot two for the double bonus followed by 2 for the technical foul. White would then get a throw-in at halfcourt opposite the table.

Z
I was wondering the same thing as you z...I don't see a problem with this call.

It might be interesting to hear where the officials took the ball OOB though...and if the officials cleared the lanes for the FTs.
I think the problem with this one is the dead ball foul should be a T.
I think you're wrong. It is a T, but it has to be an intentional technical foul by rule. It can't be an ordinary T by rule. If it's a dead-ball contact foul, it has to be called either an intentional T or a flagrant T.

Rule 4-19-5b&c.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 7th, 2005 at 07:45 PM]
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 07, 2005, 08:50pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44


(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

What's your beef with this one? I agree that the double-handed reporting is not a proper mechanic (never in NFHS although I've heard that a couple college camps were advocating it), but this call might have been correct.

After the holding call on Black 44, we were in a dead ball situation. Black 44 then pushed White 22. Perhaps the official called an intentional technical foul? In that case, we would have done them in order which means that we'd shoot two for the double bonus followed by 2 for the technical foul. White would then get a throw-in at halfcourt opposite the table.

Z
I was wondering the same thing as you z...I don't see a problem with this call.

It might be interesting to hear where the officials took the ball OOB though...and if the officials cleared the lanes for the FTs.
I think the problem with this one is the dead ball foul should be a T.
I think you're wrong. It is a T, but it has to be an intentional technical foul by rule. It can't be an ordinary T by rule. If it's a dead-ball contact foul, it has to be called either an intentional T or a flagrant T.

Rule 4-19-5b&c.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 7th, 2005 at 07:45 PM]
Semantics. T vs Intentional T. Penalty is the same. 2 shots, division line throwin.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 07, 2005, 09:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44


(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

What's your beef with this one? I agree that the double-handed reporting is not a proper mechanic (never in NFHS although I've heard that a couple college camps were advocating it), but this call might have been correct.

After the holding call on Black 44, we were in a dead ball situation. Black 44 then pushed White 22. Perhaps the official called an intentional technical foul? In that case, we would have done them in order which means that we'd shoot two for the double bonus followed by 2 for the technical foul. White would then get a throw-in at halfcourt opposite the table.

Z
I was wondering the same thing as you z...I don't see a problem with this call.

It might be interesting to hear where the officials took the ball OOB though...and if the officials cleared the lanes for the FTs.
I think the problem with this one is the dead ball foul should be a T.
I think you're wrong. It is a T, but it has to be an intentional technical foul by rule. It can't be an ordinary T by rule. If it's a dead-ball contact foul, it has to be called either an intentional T or a flagrant T.

Rule 4-19-5b&c.

Semantics. T vs Intentional T. Penalty is the same. 2 shots, division line throwin.
Nope, not semantics.

Rules.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2005, 07:32am
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Valuable observation. I'm sure all officials watch a game with a somewhat critical eye - as we should. Observation can be a very valuable training/teaching tool. Always a good idea to watch YOURSELF on tape as often as you can...you'll probably be surprised at what you see!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2005, 12:11pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44


(2) Holding on Black 44, who then pushes White 22 to the floor. Calling official comes to the table: "Black 44 (signified by a double handed 4), hold. Double Bonus, two shots. Black 44, dead ball intentional foul, two shots."

What's your beef with this one? I agree that the double-handed reporting is not a proper mechanic (never in NFHS although I've heard that a couple college camps were advocating it), but this call might have been correct.

After the holding call on Black 44, we were in a dead ball situation. Black 44 then pushed White 22. Perhaps the official called an intentional technical foul? In that case, we would have done them in order which means that we'd shoot two for the double bonus followed by 2 for the technical foul. White would then get a throw-in at halfcourt opposite the table.

Z
I was wondering the same thing as you z...I don't see a problem with this call.

It might be interesting to hear where the officials took the ball OOB though...and if the officials cleared the lanes for the FTs.
I think the problem with this one is the dead ball foul should be a T.
I think you're wrong. It is a T, but it has to be an intentional technical foul by rule. It can't be an ordinary T by rule. If it's a dead-ball contact foul, it has to be called either an intentional T or a flagrant T.

Rule 4-19-5b&c.

Semantics. T vs Intentional T. Penalty is the same. 2 shots, division line throwin.
Nope, not semantics.

Rules.

I guess I should have been more specific...when the official went to the table, he signaled via mechanics an intentional foul, not a technical foul, i.e. he used the arms crossed mechanic. Procedurally after that, they did everything right: choice of shooter and ball out at division line opposite.
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