Correctable?

[112448]

Dave appears to be correct in this situation.

NFHS case book page 10, 2.10.1C
"A1 is fouled prior to the bonus, but erroneously A1 is awareded a one-and-one. The error is discovered...(e) after B2 has control of the throw-in from B1 after A1's two successful freethrows. Ruling: In...(e), the successful free throw(s) are cancelled and play continues with a throw-in by B as B had the ball when the game was interrupted for correction."

Granted, this case book play is not EXACTLY the same as the play in this thread, but by extrapolation, I believe Dave is giving us the correct answer.

B had the ball at the time the error was discovered, so they should have the ball after the correction of the error. In the case, correcting the error DOES NOT INVOLVE giving the ball back to A, rather, it involves taking point(s) off the board that were incorrectely credited to A. I think this is what was confusing Hawks Coach...why should B get to shoot the free throws, if A is going to get the ball back. But according to Rule 2-10-6, A WOULD NOT GET the ball back, but play would be "resumed from the point at which it was interrupted to rectify the error." In this case, the interruption took place at the free throws. So B shoots the free throws and play resumes as normal after the missed or made throws.


So, Hawks Coach you said you were looking for a rule book and/or case book ruling to cover this situation. Check rule 2-10-6 and case book 2.10.1C and let me know if that makes sense.

thanks Dave for pointing that out.

Jake

[Hawks Coach]

Yes, that is what Dave said, but he also said that he agreed with bktballref's opinion on this subject. However, Dave's conclusion is completely different from that of bktballref's conclusion. So which if either of these is correct and why? I side with Dave.

Dave Brost
Thus, you would go back and nullify the free throws, and then resume play by awarding the free throws for the last foul. The ball would not go back to team A for an inbound based on the correction of the error. You would play the free throws as normal.

bktballref
2-10-5 states, "Points scored, consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified." Therefore, B1 shoots his FTs with no one on the lane and then A gets the ball back on the spot nearest the foul.

I know you would take away the free throw that was erroneously allowed to be shot and made. Then you go to correctable error provisions. I actually find Dave's interpretation of 2-10-6 more compelling than anything that allows the shooting of the free throws with nobody on lane and the award of the ball back to A. I had misinterpreted what would happen in other violations. It appears from my re-reading of 2-10 that you would merely eliminate the error by taking away the points but you would not give the ball to A, even though failure to give A the ball for a throw-in was also part of the error. If you give A the ball, you would not meet the provision of 2-10-6 which says "play shall be resumed from the point at which it was interrupted to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possession since the error was made." Since we are not awarding merited free throws, but rather taking away unmerited free throws, (and we have had change of possession) it seems we should let B shoot with players on the lane. This also makes more sense since failure to award the ball to a team for a throw-in (for example, mistake with AP arrow) is not a correctable error. So A loses out on free throw and on the possession.

So the only error that can be corrected if ball becomes live after the made free throw is to take away the made free throw. If this error was noted before the second free throw was missed, A would have gotten ball and the free throw would have been wiped out. Can we all agree on that?

[Dave Brost]

Coach-
I think your assessment is right on the money. Had they discovered the error while Team A was still shooting the erroneous free throws, they could have corrected and then given the ball to Team A for inbounds. As for the original scenario, Team A is actually being penalized for the error by not getting to inbound, and also having the free throw points taken away.
I think to sum this up, it goes to show why good communication with your scorekeepers is critical. Hopefully, these situations can be avoided before they even happen.

[Hawks Coach]

Sorry, my latest reply crossed with jakes, and I agree that this makes sense. It sure clarified something for me on correctable errors. I always find this area to be confusing.

[112448]

This thread proves once again why this forum is both a good investment of time and money for me.

Dave's comment about communication should be pounded into the head of every official and scorekeeper.

Thanks to all for making me think about basketball rules on a day in early May. Like they say, the kids are working all year round, so should we.

Jake

[BktBallRef]

After reading the case play, I would have to agree. Take the erroneously awarded FT off the board and resume the game with B's FTs.

Isn't it interesting though, that if the error had been a failure to award A1 his FTs, we would go back and do it. Yet, if A should have gotten the ball instead, as in this play, we don't give it to them. That's an inequity if there's ever been one.

I'll say it again! I hate these things!