Give me an example please.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rwest
In my example, which was not exactly the same as 8.6.1, the table informs the officials that the team was in a 1-and-1. The officials did not notice the mistake on their own. Also, in my case play no one attempted a rebound. Everyone thought there would be 2 shots taken. Why, because the officials awarded 2 shots to the shooter. You can call this "Errorneous Information", but its still an error by the official. That's what correctable errors are.

Awarding free-throws is not the same as taken free-throws. Officials award free-throws to players. Players shoot free-throws. When in my example did the error occur? When the offical awarded two free-throws instead of 1-and-1. The effect of the error is that no one attempted a rebound. This was not the error, but the result.

Also, POI is used to put the ball back into play in my example. If this is not POI, what would you call it?

I guess where we differ is in the interpretation of "award".

Very simple question.....

What unmerited free throw was taken in your situation?

You cannot apply a rule correcting an unmerited free throw that was taken to a situation that never actually happened.

Again, there NEVER was an UNMERITED free throw taken. You can't correct something that never happened. That's why you can't apply R2-10-1(b), or any other part of 2-10-1 for that matter. It's that simple.

[rwest]

No unmerited free-throw was taken, but the correctable error is not in the taking of an unmerited free-throw but the awarding of the unmerited free-throw, as rule 2-10 says. I agree that taken the unmerited free-throw is also an error that can be corrected. But the rule says "awarding" and I believe that we can correct the error before the shot is actually taken.

I think we are splitting hairs. Is there any situation you can think of that my interpretation will get me into trouble? If so, please let me know. I want to get this right.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I really do believe this is a correctably error.

In either case, I got the resumption of play correct. We go with an AP throw-in.

Another point in my favor is that in my example we use the POI of interruption to resume play. Now what caused use to use POI? The rule book says POI is .... Method of resuming play due to

1. An official's accidental whistle ===> Not applicable
2. An interrupted game, as in 5-4-3 ===> Not applicable
3. A correctable error ===> I think this applies
4. A double personal, double technical, or simultaneous foul ===> Not Applicable

I also believe the title above case play 8.6.1, which is similar to my example, is misleading. Rule 8-6 is entitled Resuming Play Differences. No where in rule 8-6-1 or 8-6-2 does it mention what to do when an error occurs. So the scenario in Case Play 8.6.1 must involve some other rule. I believe it is Rule 2-10.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rwest
No unmerited free-throw was taken, but the correctable error is not in the taking of an unmerited free-throw but the awarding of the unmerited free-throw, as rule 2-10 says.

Cool.

Now, what unmerited free throw was awarded?

The only free throw taken- the first one, was a MERITED free throw.

There NEVER was an unmerited free throw awarded.

[rwest]

Did we use POI to resume play? If so, why did we use POI?

The only options are:

1. Accidental Whistle
2. Interrupted Game
3. Correctable Error
4. Double Personal
5. Double Technical
6. Simultaneous Foul

Did an error occur prior to shooting the 2nd free-throw? If so, what was the error?

[rwest]

Case Play 2.10.1 Situation B

A1 has been awarded two free throws. Errorneously, the ball is allowed to remain in play after A1 misses on the first attempt. A2 rebounds the miss and tosses the ball through the basket. B1 secures the ball and inbounds it. Play continues until a foul is called on A2 as B is passing the ball in B's front-court.

Ruling: The goal by A2 counts, but the error of not awarding A1 a second free throw is no longer correctable....

Now in this case play we both have wording to support are different positions. Notice it says at the beginning of the play that "A1 has been awarded two free throws". Even before he shot the first free throw, the case says he has been awarded two.

It then has language in the ruling that supports your interpretation of "award" in that "the error of not awarding A1 a second free throw is no longer correctable."

I can see where both interpretations work.

[Kelvin green]

I quote...

You can call this "Errorneous Information", but its still an error by the official. That's what correctable errors are.

Correctable errors are not errors by the offical, they are specific and defined. Making an incorrect announcement about something is not a correctable error plain and simple.

In your example you are not putting the ball back into play using POI. Your putting the ball back into play because the officials told players there was two shots, and turns out it was one and one... Since neither team went for the ball and so one team does not get an advantage thr rule writers put in the interp that you go with AP.

If you went with POI modifying your example if one team rebounded the ball and another did not POI would give the ball back to the tam who rebounded it. But the ruling specifically states that you wont do that unless both teams went for ball and rebounded...

As JR stated there has never been an unmerited free-throw awarded.

in Case play 2.10.1 they use "award and announce" two FT's instead of one. In my mind this a a nuance that is there. If you awarded a team 2 FT's at scorer's table when reporting the foul (most likely the time you awarded the shots) but team was in bonus and you announce 1+1, and they play on did you have an unmerited FT that needs to be corrected under rule? I dont think so...

I still think most of time you will find awarded means giving the player a shot he was not entitled to. In your scenarion tht never happened.

Not all correctable errors use POI either. if you need to shoot a shot nd there has been no change of possession you go to the line and shoot and resume. it is an exception to POI

You also have to remember that you cannot correct every mistake, you ask how this effects the game?

If you attempt to correct every mistake thinking it is correctable you will eventually cost a team a game.

You call a foul on the wrong player, not correctable!

You give the ball to the wrong team after a time out, ball comes into play, not correctable.

Awarding the wrong ball on AP is an error by the official but not correctable.

Announce and have recorded in 1Q that A calls time out but it was really B, and someone asks at the next quarter break, not correctable.

Put 5 seconds back on clock when you should have only put 4 not correctable...