who gets a T...

JohnBark · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 09, 2005, 04:24pm

during a 60 TO, i hear from team A's bench the F-bomb clear as a bell. however, i don't know or see who said it. who should you T up? the coach would be an indirect for bench personnel, but which player would get the T? or is it an indirect charged to the coach and no one else?

sorry for the situation, but, i'm studying for the upcoming season now. and i just thought of this situation. i'm sure it's happened in the past to someone.

thanks!

Mark Padgett · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 09, 2005, 04:51pm

Yes, you must call it on a specific player in this instance and yes, it would then also be an indirect on the head coach.

But you have some options here:

1)You can just choose one and wait until he protests and points to the real culprit

2)You can ask who did it, and if no one answers, threaten every player with a T for trying to influence an official's decision (yeah - this one goes over real well)

3)You can arbitrarily give it to the captain (although this is not the rule, either - and you cannot support it, but I have seen it happen)

4)My personal favorite - give it to the coach's kid

crazy voyager · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 10:38am

well- me and my fiba rules:P
I'd give a benchtechical to the coach- that goes even if I knew who did it acctually, a subsitutators t's goes at the coach insted, in fiba anyway...

BktBallRef · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 10:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnBark
during a 60 TO, i hear from team A's bench the F-bomb clear as a bell. however, i don't know or see who said it. who should you T up? the coach would be an indirect for bench personnel, but which player would get the T? or is it an indirect charged to the coach and no one else?

sorry for the situation, but, i'm studying for the upcoming season now. and i just thought of this situation. i'm sure it's happened in the past to someone.

thanks!

If you don't know who said it, you don't T anyone.

"Coach, I heard an f-bomb from your huddle. I don't know which player said it. Clean it up for me, would ya?"

Jurassic Referee · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 11:23am

Give 'em a team "T" under R10-1-8-"commit an unsporting foul". That rule is vague enough to use. Sends a message too.

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 11:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by crazy voyager
a subsitutators

I think this pertains to an extra in the movie Napoleon Dynamite.

Snake~eyes · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 11:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Give 'em a team "T" under R10-1-8-"commit an unsporting foul". That rule is vague enough to use. Sends a message too.

I don't see why you can't charge it to the team. The only bad thing is the coach won't lose his box.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 12:26pm

If you cannot identify the person who said it, do not call a T on anyone. Just warn the team or the area you heard it. If someone is stupid enough after that to use the language you have put everyone on notice (as well as the coach). We do this in football all the time where it is very difficult to tell who said what and under what circumstances. Do not just pick a player or a team. That is not right in my judgment. Do not go looking for someone to get on this please.

Peace

JohnBark · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 12:37pm

if you don't know who said it, can you T up the coach or charge a Team T? I don't like the idea of just warning the coach. because, what happens at the next TO and the same thing happens? i've read and read the rulebook about this. and i can't find where i can charge anyone other than the player who said it. but, if you can't see who said it. i guess i would have to hover very, very close to their huddle at the next TO. i would warn the coach to clean it up. and then hover around the huddle next time to watch.

any other advise?

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnBark
if you don't know who said it, can you T up the coach or charge a Team T? I don't like the idea of just warning the coach. because, what happens at the next TO and the same thing happens? i've read and read the rulebook about this. and i can't find where i can charge anyone other than the player who said it. but, if you can't see who said it. i guess i would have to hover very, very close to their huddle at the next TO. i would warn the coach to clean it up. and then hover around the huddle next time to watch.

any other advise?

Yes, you certainly can charge a team "T" for unsporting conduct under 10-1-8. Unlike other posters, I won't ignore that type of language either. It's got absolutely no place in high school sports imo. If all officials would grow some balls and stop letting players get away with this junk, then it might not be as prevalent as it has seemed to become. If we all start calling it, then maybe the coaches will think about dealing with it. You sureashell knew what team was responsible for the F-shots in this case ;go ahead and make them be responsible.

Again jmo.

JohnBark · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 02:47pm

JR, i agree with you 100%!!! and after some thoughts about your previous post. charging it to the team/head coach 10-1-8 would make sense, since they are on the bench.

thanks to everyone for all of there thoughts!

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnBark
JR, i agree with you 100%!!! and after some thoughts about your previous post. charging it to the team/head coach 10-1-8 would make sense, since they are on the bench.

thanks to everyone for all of there thoughts!

Whoa, John....just to get it straight, you can't also charge a indirect "T" to the coach under 10-1-8, much as I personally would like to....even though he is(or should be) responsible for the bench. The rules don't allow it. You can charge the team "T" though.

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnBark
if you don't know who said it, can you T up the coach or charge a Team T? I don't like the idea of just warning the coach. because, what happens at the next TO and the same thing happens? i've read and read the rulebook about this. and i can't find where i can charge anyone other than the player who said it. but, if you can't see who said it. i guess i would have to hover very, very close to their huddle at the next TO. i would warn the coach to clean it up. and then hover around the huddle next time to watch.

any other advise?

I do not think it is right to give a coach a T when the coach on his own did nothing wrong. Also I feel that it would be a cop out to just T the team without knowing who said the words. What if you throw out a person and the first action all you had was "Well I am not sure they said it, but I decided to give them a T anyway." I personally find that very objectionable to do so. What if you overheard something and it did not come from the players at all? Now you have penalized a team improperly. That is why I feel a warning serves the purpose. I also feel that you are not ignoring anything by giving a warning; you are just making sure they know they probably were heard.

Peace

JugglingReferee · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Give 'em a team "T" under R10-1-8-"commit an unsporting foul". That rule is vague enough to use. Sends a message too.

This is the correct ruling.

Well, IMO, anyways.

JohnBark · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 10, 2005, 03:27pm

well, i guess a team warning would be ok. but, what happens if it happened again later in the game. and once again, you aren't sure who said it. that's my only sticking point. i certainly won't penalize a player for something i'm not sure he/she did. that was the whole point to the original post. if you hear the "f-bomb" from the team huddle during a TO, who do you penalize? that type of language is not called for. and i believe after reading all the post, that a TEAM T under 10-1-8 would be the appropriate ruling. you can't penalize a player, because you don't know who said it. and you can't directly penalize the coach either, because he didn't say it. but, i bet by issuing a TEAM T, that language will no longer occur during that game.