Adjusting officiating level to pay

[drinkeii]

I have worked with several officials who have made comments such as "I'm not making a call like that for what I'm getting paid for this" or "It's only $10 per game - I'm not gonna hustle for that".

Is this a common attitude? I feel that regardless of what you're being paid, you'd better hustle and do the job right, for several reasons. Liability, for one - if you let it get out of hand just because you're not being paid much, seems like you're sticking your neck out pretty bad if someone gets hurt. Another would be common sense - you agreed to do the game, presumably knowing what the pay would be - shouldn't you do your best?

[truerookie]

Officials who approach the game as if the pay is not enough should not take the games. They are chasing money period. You are getting paid to make calls make them regardless of the pay. Once they find themselves in court over someones kid getting injured because they are getting paid a certain amount their attitude will change.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by drinkeii
Is this a common attitude? I feel that regardless of what you're being paid, you'd better hustle and do the job right, for several reasons. Liability, for one - if you let it get out of hand just because you're not being paid much, seems like you're sticking your neck out pretty bad if someone gets hurt.

Have you ever known anyone to be sued for letting a game "get out of hand?" I mean, we see this discussed here all the time. Has anyone here ever known someone to be sued for something that happened on the floor?

I'm not for lollygagging based on what you're getting paid. However, if you're in a situation where you have to work several games in a row, you may need to take a few shortcuts in order to save yourself. But I'm tlking more like not switching on every foul or those types of things.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jul 3rd, 2005 at 12:02 AM]

[zebraman]

Originally posted by drinkeii
I have worked with several officials who have made comments such as "I'm not making a call like that for what I'm getting paid for this" or "It's only $10 per game - I'm not gonna hustle for that".

Is this a common attitude? I feel that regardless of what you're being paid, you'd better hustle and do the job right, for several reasons. Liability, for one - if you let it get out of hand just because you're not being paid much, seems like you're sticking your neck out pretty bad if someone gets hurt. Another would be common sense - you agreed to do the game, presumably knowing what the pay would be - shouldn't you do your best?

If I take a game, I'm going to work it hard even in the off-season. IMHO, refs who are being lazy because they are working too many games in a row should cut back on the number of games they accept. Fortunately around here, about 95% of our off-season stuff is run through our association and our board of directors has let our assignor know that he needs to only assign those games to officials who put in the effort.

Z

[JRutledge]

The question I have for you is what kind of games are we talking about here? I will say there is a difference in approach from a varsity game to a summer league varsity game. During the season I am probably only going to work one game. During the summer I will be working usually more than two games in the night. My approach is not going to be the same, nor is my philosophy on how I call the game. Even when during the regular season I have to do a double header, I admit that I might not give it my all as I would just for one game.

I think you just have to be clear as to what different types of games you are talking about. Not all games or levels are made the same.

Peace

[drinkeii]

I'm referring to behaviors like calling nothing other than out of bounds when there is obvious and regular contact that would be construed as a foul in a "regular season" game. I'm referring to looking away from the floor for extended periods of time during transitions, and getting beat up the floor regularly on fast breaks because of lack of effort to get into a good position to view the play. I'm referring to a lack of willingness to call certain things like 5 seconds C.G. or 3 seconds because "I'm not gonna call that at this kind of game".

I'm not referring to slowing down a little because you have to do multiple games (however, I do object to the partner I had, mentioned in a post in another thread, that was a non-qualified official doing 11 games on one day and 10 on the next, all in a row.) - that is expected. But when you slow down so much you're not officiating - you're just walking up and down the court and looking for out of bounds calls - you shoulnd't be doing it. Especially not when you have a partner who is willing to do their job, and willing to try to do it right and to the best of their ability, and likely to get hung out to dry because of it.

As for the comment about no one ever getting sued for letting a game get out of hand, i'm sure that no one has, for simply having that happen. I was referring to, in the original post, where someone gets hurt because of that. People have gotten sued for that. And when a tape of the game is produced by some parent who was videotaping, showing an official chatting with people on the sideline, or walking facing away from the court for more than an extremely short period of time here and there when repositioning, or ignoring obvious contact that could be considered to be dangerous beyond normal play, I would say that it is very likely that the official is going to be held liable. Remember - we live in a society where spilling hot coffee on yourself allows you to get money from the store you bought the hot coffee from, because it was hot.

[Edited by drinkeii on Jul 3rd, 2005 at 01:11 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by zebraman
IMHO, refs who are being lazy because they are working too many games in a row should cut back on the number of games they accept.

Unfortunately that's not possible many times. I've found myself in situations where there weren't enough offiicals to work games, and we were pretty much forced to work a lot of games to get the tourney completed. It has nothing to do with "being lazy." You're fortunate if you've never been in that sitch but I have and I'm not going to kill myself during the process.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jul 3rd, 2005 at 01:26 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by drinkeii
I was referring to, in the original post, where someone gets hurt because of that. People have gotten sued for that.

Again, who do you know that has been sued?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by drinkeii
As for the comment about no one ever getting sued for letting a game get out of hand, i'm sure that no one has, for simply having that happen. I was referring to, in the original post, where someone gets hurt because of that. People have gotten sued for that. And when a tape of the game is produced by some parent who was videotaping, showing an official chatting with people on the sideline, or walking facing away from the court for more than an extremely short period of time here and there when repositioning, or ignoring obvious contact that could be considered to be dangerous beyond normal play, I would say that it is very likely that the official is going to be held liable. Remember - we live in a society where spilling hot coffee on yourself allows you to get money from the store you bought the hot coffee from, because it was hot.

That sound all great, but people think we do not know what we are doing even when we know exactly what we are doing. Players get hurt regardless of what we call. So I think Tony's point was that you can worry all day about these things and bad things will still happen.

Peace

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Again, who do you know that has been sued?

Personally no one, however, if people didn't get sued, we woulnd't need liability insurance. I'm sure if I had to search, I could come up with some court cases.

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by JRutledge

That sound all great, but people think we do not know what we are doing even when we know exactly what we are doing. Players get hurt regardless of what we call. So I think Tony's point was that you can worry all day about these things and bad things will still happen.

Peace

I'm not referring to worrying about it - I'm referring to doing your job the best you can. That's all I ask. Why would you pay to be in a tournament or summer camp to have your team play games, to be officiated by officials who don't care, who aren't qualified, or both?

I did have one coach that complimented me and my partner 2 weekends ago, because we called things - She complained about 2 non-PIAA officials who worked a game the day before, same camp, different facility, that had no control over the game at all and called nothing. I'm relaying this third hand, but i completely understand where she was coming from, and probably worked with that guy the next day.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by drinkeii

I'm not referring to worrying about it - I'm referring to doing your job the best you can. That's all I ask. Why would you pay to be in a tournament or summer camp to have your team play games, to be officiated by officials who don't care, who aren't qualified, or both?

That is something you need to take up with the tournament directors. I know when I work games the tournament directors are more concerned with cutting corners and not even providing good facilities for the officials. Then guys like you wonder why you get officials that do not care or do not give it their all.

Originally posted by drinkeii
I did have one coach that complimented me and my partner 2 weekends ago, because we called things - She complained about 2 non-PIAA officials who worked a game the day before, same camp, different facility, that had no control over the game at all and called nothing. I'm relaying this third hand, but i completely understand where she was coming from, and probably worked with that guy the next day.

That is all nice, but it still is summer league. You are just not going to get the same passion for the game from official, coaches or people that run the tournament because the values are not the same. Sorry to burst your bubble, I used to worry about this too. Then I realized that what I do or what I think does not matter either. I cannot even deal with coaches during the summer that are the head of their programs, so why should I expect every officials that works games are going to be top notch?

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by JRutledge

That is something you need to take up with the tournament directors. I know when I work games the tournament directors are more concerned with cutting corners and not even providing good facilities for the officials. Then guys like you wonder why you get officials that do not care or do not give it their all.

That is all nice, but it still is summer league. You are just not going to get the same passion for the game from official, coaches or people that run the tournament because the values are not the same. Sorry to burst your bubble, I used to worry about this too. Then I realized that what I do or what I think does not matter either. I cannot even deal with coaches during the summer that are the head of their programs, so why should I expect every officials that works games are going to be top notch?

Again, I'm not looking for top notch. I'm looking for qualified (minimum have passed the NFHS exam), and willing to give their best effort, or close to it. Why would you sign up to do something halfway? The coaches (and I'm speaking as an official throughout this set of posts) seem to take it seriously - some of them way too seriously. You are probably right about the people running the event cutting corners. But is it that unreasonable to ask for people who sign up to do these games to give a good, honest, reasonable effort? Again, why would you sign up to do something, if you're going to do a lousy job at it? I know this happens in everyday life... but my understanding of most officials is that they are doing it at the subprofessional level because it is a hobby - something they like to do. I don't think too many people become basketball officials for the money, with no love of the game or officiating in general.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by drinkeii


Again, I'm not looking for top notch. I'm looking for qualified (minimum have passed the NFHS exam), and willing to give their best effort, or close to it.

You just proved my point. Passing any NF test does not mean anything to me. Passing a test does not mean you are in shape, will hustle or have the presence to handle coaches, players or fans yelling and screaming at you.

Originally posted by drinkeii
Why would you sign up to do something halfway? The coaches (and I'm speaking as an official throughout this set of posts) seem to take it seriously - some of them way too seriously.

That is something you need to take up with those officials. Not anything we can answer here. All we are doing is talking about this.

Originally posted by drinkeii
You are probably right about the people running the event cutting corners. But is it that unreasonable to ask for people who sign up to do these games to give a good, honest, reasonable effort?

As I stated before, what does that mean? What you might consider a good, honest and reasonable effort is not going to fit everyone's point of view.

Originally posted by drinkeii
Again, why would you sign up to do something, if you're going to do a lousy job at it? I know this happens in everyday life... but my understanding of most officials is that they are doing it at the subprofessional level because it is a hobby - something they like to do. I don't think too many people become basketball officials for the money, with no love of the game or officiating in general.

What makes you think people do not officiate for the money? I do not know too many things in life where I can make over $100 cash in one night. I do not know about you, but officiating pays bills and covers expenses not easily seen. The money I have made this summer helped pay for some trips that I did not plan (death in the family) and I know people that use all their officiating money for vacations, education and special things they would not be able to do without it. Gas has gone through the roof lately. I know the money I make helps cover those costs.

Peace

[drinkeii]

So I guess, in the end, you're stuck with whatever officials you end up with as a coach, or whatever partners you end up with as an official, and there's nothing you can do about it. That is the gist of what you're saying. I guess it's just me, then, that has a problem with this attitude. When you choose to do something, you should do it because you want to, and do it well. Not do it so you can take home large amounts of money regardless of whether you do a good job or not.

Maybe that's my opinion because I have a job that I enjoy. I officiate because I enjoy it. If I don't enjoy doing something, I do my best at it, and choose not to do it again. That's all.