Screaming "BALL BALL BALL" during girls games

[Texas Aggie]

Camron: he's not necessarily talking about the screamer doing it to the person with the ball, but a defender screaming in someone's face in the post, perhaps, away from the ball.

One thing you can do is give the screamer very little leeway on contact. They aren't playing defense or the ball, and any contact would by definition be less incidental that it ordinarily would had they been in a more proper guarding position.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Camron: he's not necessarily talking about the screamer doing it to the person with the ball, but a defender screaming in someone's face in the post, perhaps, away from the ball.

I've never seen a player do it who wasn't guarding the ball.

One thing you can do is give the screamer very little leeway on contact. They aren't playing defense or the ball, and any contact would by definition be less incidental that it ordinarily would had they been in a more proper guarding position.

What other things do players do that causes you to call a foul when it really isn't a foul?

Fellas, you tread on dangerous ground when you start calling fouls and T's because a player is doing something that annoys you.

[Tim Roden]

I can't find any solid reason to call it. You you have one the let me know. BTW, the "Ball,Ball,Ball" yelling is only annoying in an empty gym. I have never had a problem when there was 1000 people in the gym.

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

This IS communication. That is why they do it. It continuously informs their teammates about the location of the ball and the fact that you've got it covered. You may not like it but there is nothing illegal about it.

If your going to call that, you might as well call a T whenever any opponent says a word that migth annoy or distract the other team.

Like lotto said, this is not Golf.

2 things...

1) Never having seen anyone call something doesn't mean that it isn't a legitimate call. Taken the other way, I have seen a number of refs call over the back, and even signal it at a varsity game (some kind of batman signal). Just because a call is made, doesn't mean it is right... just because a call doesn't get made, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've worked with a number of officials who absolutely refuse to call certain things... even though the rule says you have to.

2) If the team isn't aware of where the ball is by looking, something's wrong. Another case would be the person inbounding the ball, with a player screaming in their face (and a case where the 3 foot rule doesn't apply, such as having a long way they could back up). Everyone knows where the ball is and who's covering it - is this communication?

And seriously, in the example as I put it above, you don't think there is an issue of intimidation involved?

[BktBallRef]

I hate it when someone posts and asks for an opinion and then wants to b!tch and moan when you give that opinion.

Originally posted by drinkeii
2 things...

1) Never having seen anyone call something doesn't mean that it isn't a legitimate call. Taken the other way, I have seen a number of refs call over the back, and even signal it at a varsity game (some kind of batman signal). Just because a call is made, doesn't mean it is right... just because a call doesn't get made, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've worked with a number of officials who absolutely refuse to call certain things... even though the rule says you have to.

Yes, but the difference is there's no rule that says, "Yelling ball, ball, ball is illegal." THAT'S WHY NO ONE MAKES THE CALL!

2) If the team isn't aware of where the ball is by looking, something's wrong. Another case would be the person inbounding the ball, with a player screaming in their face (and a case where the 3 foot rule doesn't apply, such as having a long way they could back up). Everyone knows where the ball is and who's covering it - is this communication?

And seriously, in the example as I put it above, you don't think there is an issue of intimidation involved?

Why would anybody be intimidated just because someone is yelling, "Ball! Ball! Ball!"?

There's nothing illegal about this. They can and will continue to do it until it is made illegal. But right now, it ain't.

Tell you what, you throw the T the next time and then let us know what happens, including the reactions of fans, coaches, players, your partners, and your assignor. Since you'll be breaking new ground, it'll be interesting to hear what all those folks think of your new rule.

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I hate it when someone posts and asks for an opinion and then wants to b!tch and moan when you give that opinion.

Yes, but the difference is there's no rule that says, "Yelling ball, ball, ball is illegal." THAT'S WHY NO ONE MAKES THE CALL!

Why would anybody be intimidated just because someone is yelling, "Ball! Ball! Ball!"?

There's nothing illegal about this. They can and will continue to do it until it is made illegal. But right now, it ain't.

Tell you what, you throw the T the next time and then let us know what happens, including the reactions of fans, coaches, players, your partners, and your assignor. Since you'll be breaking new ground, it'll be interesting to hear what all those folks think of your new rule.

Point taken... I did ask for opinions. I was not complaining - I was pointing out other directions I wanted to go with the question. If it is not an appropriate call, that's fine - I disagree with the tactic, but if the rules don't support it, it's likely I won't make the call. Honestly, I never have believed that I am there to make people happy. My feeling, in all sports, as a participant, official, or coach, is that the officials' job is #1) keep the players safe, #2) enforce the rules, #3) attempt to keep the game flowing. Many officials feel #3 is more important than #1 or #2, and in professional sports, #4) keep paying people happy - is actually #1. This (the question of the screaming) really doesn't fall into any of the above categories... no one, other than myself and some other officials, have complained about it - I guess if the opposing coach has no problem with players screaming in his/her players faces, who am I to question it.

Thanks for the opinions.

[rainmaker]

Padgett will jump in here pretty soon and tell about a guy here in Portland who gives T's for yelling "SHOT!!" right as the shooter goes up. It doesn't matter how many times you tell him it's not illegal, and he shouldn't call it that way. When he gets the chance, he warns and then T's.

I've noticed a lot more boys yelling, "Ball, Ball, Ball..." this year than I remember in other years. Also this year, girls are yelling, "Dead! Dead! Dead!..." or as someone else pointed out, "Tight, Tight, Tight..." A think a little variety makes it much more palatable. Next year, I hope a team or two will have some rhythm added in, and maybe get the crowd to join in. Really get the gym rockin'!

Here's another "verbal tactics" sportsmanship question. Is it illegal for the opponent to yell, "Shoot!" at the ball-handler? It seems pretty unsportsmanlike to me, but I've never seen anyone call it. I'm not talking about the fans, I'm talking about the players on the floor, or sometimes the bench. How do others handle this?

[JRutledge]

I have heard recently guys yelling "dead, dead, dead" constantly.

I think this would be a really bad T if it was called. Some things are just apart of the game. If it was becoming something that is not acceptable, then the NF (NCAA or NBA) would come up with an interpretation to change it. I have never seen or heard anyone give a T for this and I probably will not see it anytime soon.

I think JR had the best advice. You better run this by and assignor or evaluator first to see what they think. It is not about whether the call would be acceptable or not. It is if they think you are using good judgment. You do want to surprise them with a call like this.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by drinkeii
[/B]

I was not complaining - I was pointing out other directions I wanted to go with the question. If it is not an appropriate call, that's fine - I disagree with the tactic, but if the rules don't support it, it's likely I won't make the call. [/B][/QUOTE]David, as I said before, you can make the rules support a technical foul call in this case. It's a judgement call. What you probably will be unable to do after that is to justify that call to other officials/assignor/evaluators/ etc. It is almost certain(at least to me) that your judgement will end up being questioned- big time.I really don't think that you want that.

Grin and bear it.

[tomegun]

I've heard boys yelling "dead, dead, dead" after the dribble has ended. I think that is communication.

I don't know what yelling "ball, ball, ball" communicates. I wouldn't call a T for this. I think the worst thing I would do is ask her "can you stop saying that for no reason?" She would tell her teammates then the coach and the coach would ask why she can't say it. It wouldn't stop it but I think it would slow it down temporarily that game.
This is annoying but it isn't the only thing. Why do girls think they can just reach/grab for the ball no matter where it is on THE ENTIRE COURT? Of course this causes about 20 jump balls a game. Also, why do girls twist the top (straps or shoulder area) of their jerseys? If they all want thin straps why doesn't the school just buy them that way?

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by tomegun
I've heard boys yelling "dead, dead, dead" after the dribble has ended. I think that is communication.

I don't know what yelling "ball, ball, ball" communicates. I wouldn't call a T for this. I think the worst thing I would do is ask her "can you stop saying that for no reason?" She would tell her teammates then the coach and the coach would ask why she can't say it. It wouldn't stop it but I think it would slow it down temporarily that game.
This is annoying but it isn't the only thing. Why do girls think they can just reach/grab for the ball no matter where it is on THE ENTIRE COURT? Of course this causes about 20 jump balls a game. Also, why do girls twist the top (straps or shoulder area) of their jerseys? If they all want thin straps why doesn't the school just buy them that way?

I hear ya. Girl are the worst to call, even over little kids just learning I think. I called some rec ball recently and the 2 girls High school aged games had more physical contact than a WWE wrestling match. The 4 little kids games were a breeze.

I admit the ball ball ball yelling does get on my nerves, especially when it always seems to be that girl with the higher pitched voice. Gives me a headache. I would not say anything unless the opposing coach complains. Then I would tell the girl to stop and tell her it borders on a USC call. Put enough fear into her to stop it tho I never would.

[26 Year Gap]

Padgett will jump in here pretty soon and tell about a guy here in Portland who gives T's for yelling "SHOT!!" right as the shooter goes up. It doesn't matter how many times you tell him it's not illegal, and he shouldn't call it that way. When he gets the chance, he warns and then T's.


When I first started playing, we were encouraged to yell "Boards!" if a shot went up. A signal to box out. And to yell "Ball!" if we secured the rebound. If I hear someone yelling "SHOT!", I'm thinking, "Smart coach."

[ChrisSportsFan]

Last nights games included two games with a club team from Ireland. Both were relatively easy games to officiate and lots of fun as the girls from Ireland kept wanting to use FIBA rules on freethrows and violation throw-ins. The second game was their younger group and they played against a local HS JV team. Do you know what it sounds like across the pond when they yell? It's the same..BALL BALL BALL BALL, DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD. Nobody in the V game did it but everybody in the JV game did. Still had lots of fun though.

[coachgbert]

It's supposed to be annoying and intimidating. I've heard coaches tell their girls to scream "ball, ball, ball" anytime the other team has the ball. The funniest thing that ever happened was this past spring tournament game where a girl was screeching "ball, ball, ball, ball" at my daughter. She hadn't dribbled yet, looked at the girl and said "yes it is" then blew by her while she screamed "and now the ball, ball ball, is gone, gone, gone"

Also, girls twist the tops of their jerseys because they are always too wide. Doesn't matter if it was a spaghetti strap, it would still be too wide. If they play in t-shirts it's the worst, constant twisting tucking, pulling. It drives a coach crazy! One season I bought them all sleeve scrunci's. Didn't matter, they still twisted, pulled, tucked, etc. I think they should play in tube tops and see if that helps. At least they would be pulling at something other then their shoulders! Maybe it would make them appreciate the jerseys.

While I don't believe screaming "ball, ball, ball" is illegal I do agree it is annoying and I won't let any of my girls do it. I've noticed the older they get (around here at least) the less it's done. The most my girls say is "I've got ball" or "I've got help" to each other to let them know what's going on.

Coach Gbert

[drinkeii]

And that was my point - saying "Ball" or "I've got ball", or "Dead" or "Shot" is communication. Screaming constantly is not - if you can't track the position of the ball on the court as a player without someone screaming constantly, I think something's wrong. There is definitely an intimidation/irritation factor involved, and i can almost guarantee that most coaches are teaching it for that purpose, versus for the purpose of communication, when it is done as loud as possible and as many times as your vocal cords can stand. And yes, I have done that myself... "BALLBALLBALL" - "Thanks - I think we know it is a ball" - most people laugh at that.

The shirt straps is another issue. Drives me nutz too, and has as a soccer official as well. But I've heard from females all the way from little girls up to older ladies that they somehow get overheated if their shoulders are covered, whether in athletics, or general life. Never understood this. Psyiological maybe?