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-   -   Screaming "BALL BALL BALL" during girls games (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/21109-screaming-ball-ball-ball-during-girls-games.html)

drinkeii Thu Jun 30, 2005 02:54pm

I have a question - I have been officiating 6 years, and never had anything I was able to call for this, which I considered to be well outside the bounds of the game, but the rules don't seem to support this.

Several weeks ago, at a tournament, another official asked why we didn't call anything on this one girl who was doing it, and I said I didn't know of anything to call - Soccer has a rule for it - it's called "Deliberate Verbal Tactics", and is a yellow card (similar to a technical foul without free throws, to compare). He said it is unsportsmanlike conduct, and that I should warn her about it, and then T her up for U.C. if she continued.

I'm not talking about when a person says "BALL", even loudly, even 1-2 times, or something like it... (I got ball, ball's dead, dead, or something similar) in an attempt to communicate with teammates. I'm talking when the defensive girl (which guys never do this) gets inches away from the girl who has the ball, and starts yelling "BALL" in her face repeatedly and extremely loudly. I agree with the idea that this is unsportsmanlike - it is similar in effect, although more aggressive, than face guarding, which is defined in the rules as illegal.

My partner for several different games had no problem with this. My partner today had a problem with it, saying I was taking away their ability to play defense, and he couldn't work with someone who was that "nit-picky" about the rules.

I'm looking to see what #1) the rules say in regards to this, and #2) general opinions on how to handle it. I already know most guys won't call it - that's not an issue. I also know it isn't soccer, so the above mentioned rule doesn't apply. I'm looking to see if the person who told me this is reasonable in their interpretation, as well as having rule support for it.

Thanks in advance!

Jurassic Referee Thu Jun 30, 2005 03:20pm

David, if <b>you</b> think that it's an unsporting act, then <b>you</b> can call a T for it. it's that simple. It's your judgement, and FED rule 10-3-7 will give you rules backing.

Having said that, I think that this particular call is one you should run by your assignor/evaluator/rules interpreter and see what they think about it. I would imagine that they want all of their guys to call this one uniformly, and you don't want to end up being "that guy" by calling it differently than everyone else. Jmo.

Love this Game Thu Jun 30, 2005 03:33pm

Jur I agree
 
You hear it all the time in the girls game.

But unless you are going to call it everytime, dont start now.

And unless your association is going to have all of there officials call it i would not even waste your time.

But Drink; if you think it is unsportsmanlike call a T but be prepared to hear it. :)


drinkeii Thu Jun 30, 2005 03:39pm

Re: Jur I agree
 
[QUOTE}

But Drink; if you think it is unsportsmanlike call a T but be prepared to hear it. :)

[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I never have been one to shy away from a call I believe in, regardless of whether it is popular or not. I don't believe anyone should base their calls on what makes people happy - the rules don't cover that. I figure I try to cover my bases by letting the players know clearly, then the coach, then calling it if it continues.


brainbrian Thu Jun 30, 2005 03:39pm

It annoys me, but I've yet to call it.

If you want to stop it, possibly say somthing in the pregame.

Love this Game Thu Jun 30, 2005 03:51pm

yes talking abt it at pregame would prob be the best way to deal with it.

but it drives me crazy also.

good topic

drinkeii Thu Jun 30, 2005 04:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
David, if <b>you</b> think that it's an unsporting act, then <b>you</b> can call a T for it. it's that simple. It's your judgement, and FED rule 10-3-7 will give you rules backing.


Since it isn't specifically mentioned in 10-3-7, i'm assuming it falls under the "inclueds, but is not limited to, the following..." as one of the "not limited to..." ones...

Based on that, considering it face guarding is incorrect, however, because it specifically states the use of hands.

Jurassic Referee Thu Jun 30, 2005 04:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by drinkeii
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
David, if <b>you</b> think that it's an unsporting act, then <b>you</b> can call a T for it. it's that simple. It's your judgement, and FED rule 10-3-7 will give you rules backing.


Since it isn't specifically mentioned in 10-3-7, i'm assuming it falls under the "includes, but is not limited to, the following..." as one of the "not limited to..." ones...

Based on that, considering it face guarding is incorrect, however, because it specifically states the use of hands.

Yes, that's where the T fall falls under- and nope, it ain't faceguarding. It's just an unsporting act <b>in your opinion</b>. Rule 10-3-7 is written vaguely on purpose. You couldn't possibly list every unsporting act that might come up during a game. And if you did, I'm sure the players and coachs would quickly figger out some new ones. :D As I said, if an official thinks an act is unsporting, then it's unsporting. Others may disagree with your judgement as to what is an unsporting act actually is though. That's why I recommend running this one by whoever is next in line up the food chain.

zebraman Thu Jun 30, 2005 04:27pm

It doesn't bother me and I'd never give a T in this instance. I've heard boys games where they yell "tight, tight, tight" instead. They are just communicating to their teammates that the dribbler has lost the dribble and if everyone tightens up, they might get a 5-second call. I don't know why that would be considered unsportsmanlike.

Z

drinkeii Thu Jun 30, 2005 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
It doesn't bother me and I'd never give a T in this instance. I've heard boys games where they yell "tight, tight, tight" instead. They are just communicating to their teammates that the dribbler has lost the dribble and if everyone tightens up, they might get a 5-second call. I don't know why that would be considered unsportsmanlike.

Z

Well, i'm not referring to the ones where the player is communicating simple information for their teammates. I'm referring to screaming that in the offensive player's face from 2-3 inches away, to the point that there are little flecks of spit coming off and possibly even hitting the offensive player, and the yelling can be heard a long distance away - well beyond the distance of their teammates. It isn't in the interest of passing information, or that is just a secondary benefit - they're trying to intimidate the offensive player by screaming in their face. If it is just communication, i have no problem with it whatsoever.

BktBallRef Thu Jun 30, 2005 05:22pm

You can call it if you like and you can attempt to justify it if you like.

However, have you ever seen anyone else call it?

It's accepted as being part of the game. The best thing you can do is to simply ignore it.

Junker Thu Jun 30, 2005 06:33pm

This is annoying, but annoying isn't a T. If the opposing team is REALLY getting miffed about it and retaliating, I might try to talk to the offending player and ask them to tone it down in the spirit of sportsmanship, but besides that everyone is going to have to listen to it.

26 Year Gap Thu Jun 30, 2005 07:22pm

Just don't let it annoy you into rooting for the other team. ;)

Lotto Thu Jun 30, 2005 07:51pm

This used to bother me and I was talking about it with a good friend, who said "This is basketball, not golf." Since then, for some reason, it doesn't bother me as much.

Camron Rust Thu Jun 30, 2005 08:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by drinkeii
Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
It doesn't bother me and I'd never give a T in this instance. I've heard boys games where they yell "tight, tight, tight" instead. They are just communicating to their teammates that the dribbler has lost the dribble and if everyone tightens up, they might get a 5-second call. I don't know why that would be considered unsportsmanlike.

Z

Well, i'm not referring to the ones where the player is communicating simple information for their teammates. I'm referring to screaming that in the offensive player's face from 2-3 inches away, to the point that there are little flecks of spit coming off and possibly even hitting the offensive player, and the yelling can be heard a long distance away - well beyond the distance of their teammates. It isn't in the interest of passing information, or that is just a secondary benefit - they're trying to intimidate the offensive player by screaming in their face. If it is just communication, i have no problem with it whatsoever.

This IS communication. That is why they do it. It continuously informs their teammates about the location of the ball and the fact that you've got it covered. You may not like it but there is nothing illegal about it.

If your going to call that, you might as well call a T whenever any opponent says a word that migth annoy or distract the other team.

Like lotto said, this is not Golf.


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