BI to win Camp Championship....or is it?

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
[BProbably because support could mean anything, even though that's what a stanchion is. But a support could also be the pipes that hold a goal from above or from the wall. A stanchion best describes it.

Here endeth the English lesson. [/B]

Given the rest of tmp44's description, we already know it's a portable basket support so IMO you don't really need the $10 word when the $1 word will do.

It was to learn what stanchion means.

But I'm willing to bet a week's worth of game fees that if you approached 50 people, less than five would know what it means.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tmp44
B2 gets the backside rebound and gets a tip off right before the buzzer. The ball hits high off the backboard, then the front of the rim and bounces straight up about 4-5 inches. As the attempt is being made, defender A1 has jumped from about midway in the lane towards the basket. Realizing that it's too late to block the shot, A1 grabs and bottom of the net and pulls down on it, causing the entire basket to come down and spring back up (Important Note: Not the rim, but the entire basket mechanism. This was one of those portable college type baskets where the entire hoop can sort of "sink" on a hard dunk...this is exactly what happened here). As the basket springs back up, the front of the rim makes contact with the ball on the way down, causing it to not go in the hoop. C comes in w/ BI, and Team B wins by 1.

Does anyone NOT have BI here?

Another good question might be why nobody has a "T" on A1 for grabbing the basket - under FED rule 10-3-4.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
[/B]

No, it's not illegal to grab the goal while the ball is in the cylinder.

[/B][/QUOTE]Even when the grabbing is not done to prevent an injury?

[tmp44]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Another good question might be why nobody has a "T" on A1 for grabbing the basket - under FED rule 10-3-4.

An interesting point JR--one that in fact had never occurred to me. My question is does 10-3-4 cover grasping and pulling on the net or just the rim? I know I've only seen it called (as I'm sure is the case with almost all of us) when A1 dunks and pulls down on the rim in a showboating type manner.

That being said, the T would not have been enforced in this sitch because it would have had no bearing on the end of the game (recall that the BI was at the buzzer and gave Team B a 1 point victory). But let me take this one step further--let's say the BI occurs to TIE the game--could one foreseeably call the BI and the T? I ask that for 2 reasons.

1) I wouldn't have the cojones to make that call--let the kids decide it in OT; but more importantly

2) Is this possible? I ask that for this reason. Say A1 goes for a layup, B1 slaps the backboard, wiping out the shot and getting a T assessed. Would the same scenerio happen here? Wipe out the shot and assess the T instead? I tend to think not, but this may create a nice little discussion.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tmp44
[/B]

(1)My question is does 10-3-4 cover grasping and pulling on the net or just the rim? I know I've only seen it called (as I'm sure is the case with almost all of us) when A1 dunks and pulls down on the rim in a showboating type manner.

(2) But let me take this one step further--let's say the BI occurs to TIE the game--could one foreseeably call the BI and the T?
(3) Say A1 goes for a layup, B1 slaps the backboard, wiping out the shot and getting a T assessed. Would the same scenerio happen here? Wipe out the shot and assess the T instead?
[/B][/QUOTE]Rule 10-3-4 sez it's a T to grasp the basket. The net and the rim are both part of the basket, as per FED rule 1-10-1. Grabbing either without doing so to prevent an injury is a T.

(2) Yes, you can call both BI and a T on the same play.See the language in case book play 9.11.4.

(3) Whoa. You got this one completely wrong from the git-go. Slapping the backboard NEVER wipes out a shot. And it's not a T to slap the backboard if you rule that the player did so while legitimately attempting to block a shot.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 28th, 2005 at 08:45 AM]

[tmp44]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

(3) Whoa. You got this one completely wrong from the git-go. Slapping the backboard NEVER wipes out a shot. And it's not a T to slap the backboard if you rule that the player did so while legitimately attempting to block a shot.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 28th, 2005 at 08:45 AM] [/B]

JR...Bad description...meant this in the "hit the backboard causing the backboard to shake" resulting in a T sense. My bad. That being said, and correct me if I'm wrong and if so I stand corrected, but I thought I have read on here multiple times that if this T is called, the one for causing the basket to shake, that the shot is wiped out and the Technicals are shot instead? Am I wrong here? If so, where the he!! my brain today?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tmp44

JR...Bad description...meant this in the "hit the backboard causing the backboard to shake" resulting in a T sense. My bad. That being said, and correct me if I'm wrong and if so I stand corrected, but I thought I have read on here multiple times that if this T is called, the one for causing the basket to shake, that the shot is wiped out and the Technicals are shot instead? Am I wrong here? If so, where the he!! my brain today?

1) Yes, you're wrong. You get the T, and the shot is good or not based on its own merit.

2) You're brain is apparently stuck up your stanchion.

3) While not quite the sample size that someome (cancuckref?) requested, I just asked 10 people -- all knew what a stanchion was.

[tmp44]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

1) Yes, you're wrong. You get the T, and the shot is good or not based on its own merit.

2) You're brain is apparently stuck up your stanchion.

3) While not quite the sample size that someome (cancuckref?) requested, I just asked 10 people -- all knew what a stanchion was.

Thanks, Bob. Who knows where I got that info...probably from someone who doesn't know what a stanchion is .

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

3) While not quite the sample size that someome (cancuckref?) requested, I just asked 10 people -- all knew what a stanchion was.

Eh, I'm guessing none of those 10 were Canadian, ya hoser.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tmp44

JR...Bad description...meant this in the "hit the backboard causing the backboard to shake" resulting in a T sense. My bad. That being said, and correct me if I'm wrong and if so I stand corrected, but I thought I have read on here multiple times that if this T is called, the one for causing the basket to shake, that the shot is wiped out and the Technicals are shot instead? Am I wrong here? If so, where the he!! my brain today? [/B]

As Bob said, your head is up your stanchion.

Why do I get the feeling that we might just be seeing a whole lot of usage of that phrase here in the future?

It is not a T to cause the backboard to shake if it was during a legitimate attempt at blocking a shot. Shots are NEVER wiped out in these situations unless BI or goaltending is involved. There's a good explanation for you to read in case book play 10.3.5.

Casebook Play 10.3.5
A1 tries for goal and (a)B1 jumps and attempts to block the shot but instead slaps or strikes the backboard and the ball goes into the basket or (b)B1 vibrates the ring as a result of pulling on the net and the ball does not enter the basket.
RULING: In (a) legal and the basket counts and (b) a technical foul is charged to B1 and there is no basket.
COMMENT: The purpose of the rule is to penalize intentional contact with the backboard while a shot or try is involved or placing a hand on the backboard to gain an advantage.A player who strikes either backboard so forcefully it cannot be ignored because it is attempt to draw attention to the player, or as means of venting frustration may be assessed a technical foul pursuant to rule 10-3-7.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Another good question might be why nobody has a "T" on A1 for grabbing the basket - under FED rule 10-3-4.

Thanks for bringing that up - I tried to post it yesterday but my internet connection went out. Uh, yeah . . . that's it.

By my reading of the 'moving basket ring' BI rule, the basket moved - whether there's a spring or not, it's not stated.

Also, if your assignor doesn't want you to call BI, call the T.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by tmp44
But let me take this one step further--let's say the BI occurs to TIE the game--could one foreseeably call the BI and the T? I ask that for 2 reasons.

1) I wouldn't have the cojones to make that call--let the kids decide it in OT; but more importantly

Call the technical - otherwise you ARE deciding the game by intentionally ignoring a rule.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy

Given the rest of tmp44's description, we already know it's a portable basket support so IMO you don't really need the $10 word when the $1 word will do.

It was to learn what stanchion means.

But I'm willing to bet a week's worth of game fees that if you approached 50 people, less than five would know what it means.
[/B]

YOU already knew it was a portable basket support. I spaced that part out.

Chuck was helping ME when he used the word "stanchion". I had spaced that part, but he was politely helping me remember it by using slightly different words.

It would depend on which 50 people you approached, wouldn't it?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

No, it's not illegal to grab the goal while the ball is in the cylinder.

[/B]

Even when the grabbing is not done to prevent an injury? [/B][/QUOTE]

Speaking in the context of basket interference only.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Even when the grabbing is not done to prevent an injury? [/B]

Speaking in the context of basket interference only. [/B][/QUOTE]

Huh ??