Summer Camp. New Rules.

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I will accept and adhere to all rule changes as they are interpreted by my association. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

I would agree with the "Accept and Adhere" part, but would also have to go so far as to say I then would tend to agree with it as well. But the problem isn't with the people who choose to "accept and adhere, but disagree personally" - the problem is with the officials that just simply choose not to make the call that the rules and interpretations specify, because they don't like it. My question to these officials is "If you don't agree with the rules, to the point that you're not going to call them, why continue to officiate? You're damaging the game by picking and choosing which rules you "like" and "don't like", and enforcing/not enforcing them as such." It's not "me-sketball", it's "basketball", as defined by the rule and case books produced yearly.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by drinkeii
I would agree with the "Accept and Adhere" part, but would also have to go so far as to say I then would tend to agree with it as well. But the problem isn't with the people who choose to "accept and adhere, but disagree personally" - the problem is with the officials that just simply choose not to make the call that the rules and interpretations specify, because they don't like it. My question to these officials is "If you don't agree with the rules, to the point that you're not going to call them, why continue to officiate? You're damaging the game by picking and choosing which rules you "like" and "don't like", and enforcing/not enforcing them as such." It's not "me-sketball", it's "basketball", as defined by the rule and case books produced yearly.

You've hit the nail on the head...but it's the wrong nail. It's not so much as people not calling rules they don't like...it's people not calling rules that nobody likes and nobody call (and assignors are saying not to call). Someone that goes out with a rulebook in hand and calls anything they see just because it's in the book is not going to last long. Proper use of the rulebook requires a huge does of understanding the spirit and intent of the rule. There is not only a right call but a right time for that call.

For example, the removal of the shirt rule change this year. I can't imagine that I'll ever call a T where I wouldn't have already called a T (for unsportsmanlike behavior). This rules change is the equivalent of killing a fly with a nuke. It is also completely inconsistent with several recent changes of making things a violation instead of a T (elbows, deliberately going OOB or delaying returning, etc.)

[drinkeii]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

You've hit the nail on the head...but it's the wrong nail. It's not so much as people not calling rules they don't like...it's people not calling rules that nobody likes and nobody call (and assignors are saying not to call). Someone that goes out with a rulebook in hand and calls anything they see just because it's in the book is not going to last long. Proper use of the rulebook requires a huge does of understanding the spirit and intent of the rule. There is not only a right call but a right time for that call.

For example, the removal of the shirt rule change this year. I can't imagine that I'll ever call a T where I wouldn't have already called a T (for unsportsmanlike behavior). This rules change is the equivalent of killing a fly with a nuke. It is also completely inconsistent with several recent changes of making things a violation instead of a T (elbows, deliberately going OOB or delaying returning, etc.)

So you're saying that it is just fine to choose not to call things you disagree with, even though the rule states you MUST do so (such as the wording for the intentional foul, that certain situations MUST be considered intentional and called as such). I don't remember basketball, or any sport for that matter, having the rules decided by what the public likes. Well, at levels below the NBA, anyway. Otherwise, Iverson would be called for traveling half the time he goes to the hoop - but because the public wouldn't like that, the officials ignore it. They're not there to officiate a game - they're there to make a good game for the people paying to be there.

And with that logic, we should be making "reaching" calls and "over the back" calls, even though there is no justification or rules to support it - only the fact that the public, due to TV Commentators, feels that they are fouls.

[26 Year Gap]

Just curious...do your games ever finish in under 2 hours and with 10 players on the court?

[drinkeii]

Absolutely. Besides, IMHO, no official should officiate with a concern for how many fouls he's calling or how long the game will take. You should do your best to call the game as it is being played. I hate it when, as a coach, I get officials that refuse to call stuff because they want to get out of there in a hurry. You chose to accept the game, you are being paid for it, and you should do your best.

My favorite has to be the officials that refuse to call stuff because it lengthens the game, in a running clock game... ?? Someone missed the logic in that.

As for how many fouls, I let the players decide that. If they're sloppy and fouling all the time, there are more calls. If they're clean, there are less calls. If one team is fouling more than the other, that team gets more fouls called. I always say "I call what I see", and especially hate the phrase "Call it both ways" - I can't call stuff on a second team that isn't fouling, or not nearly as much as a first team. If the differential is several fouls, most times that is a result of one team playing more aggressively than the other, causing more fouls by the way they play. In other words, a difference of playing styles. Some styles generate more fouls than others.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by drinkeii

So you're saying that it is just fine to choose not to call things you disagree with, even though the rule states you MUST do so (such as the wording for the intentional foul, that certain situations MUST be considered intentional and called as such). I don't remember basketball, or any sport for that matter, having the rules decided by what the public likes. Well, at levels below the NBA, anyway. Otherwise, Iverson would be called for traveling half the time he goes to the hoop - but because the public wouldn't like that, the officials ignore it. They're not there to officiate a game - they're there to make a good game for the people paying to be there.

And with that logic, we should be making "reaching" calls and "over the back" calls, even though there is no justification or rules to support it - only the fact that the public, due to TV Commentators, feels that they are fouls.

You just don't get it. There's more to the game than the rule book. The rule book is a guide to how the game is to be played/called, not a bible. You do have to know the rules inside and out to call the game correctly. But, you also have to know why the rules are there when they're intended to be applied. Sometimes that can't be gleaned from the print.

Any and every time there is contact, judgement is applied: foul or not, type of foul, severity (normal, intentional, flagrant), penalty (shooting or not). Calling a foul intentional is judgement. If there are enough components of the contact to possibly not be intentional, it will not be called intentional.

Have you ever seen someone call a multiple foul? There are often opportunities to do so. I've never seen it called and I've never called it. But, its a rule. It's there for a reason...not just when there happens to be contact with two different players that both could be a foul...but when both contact just have to be called.

[blindzebra]

Cameron you just gave him a new mole hill to climb.

[Mark Dexter]

Let's also remember that the new rulebook has not yet been published. We may know the gist of the rule changes, but not many of us know for certain what the exact wording of new/modified rules will be.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally posted by blindzebra
Cameron you just gave him a new mole hill to climb.

NAH. He's just bucking for the rule book editor's job.

[26 Year Gap]

Absolutely. Besides, IMHO, no official should officiate with a concern for how many fouls he's calling or how long the game will take. You should do your best to call the game as it is being played. I hate it when, as a coach, I get officials that refuse to call stuff because they want to get out of there in a hurry. You chose to accept the game, you are being paid for it, and you should do your best.



Well, Drinkeii, maybe it is just me, but I am not thinking your opinions are very humble.