Coaches rule

[CTom]

High school Freshmen game situtation question. Coach A had previously received a direct techinical and has the "seat belt" rule in effect. Under ten seconds left in a close game and Coach A STANDS to call for a time out. Referee grants Time Out and slaps another Techical foul on the coach since he stood up to request the Time Out. Is this 2nd Techincal the proper call? Must the coach now leave the playing area?

Thanks for your replies.

Edited: The ref told the coach he gave him the Technical Foul because he stood up.

[Edited by CTom on Jun 26th, 2005 at 09:37 PM]

[brainbrian]

The technical was granted so by rule he must leave the playing area before the game can resume.

Technically I suppose the referee was correct in giving the coach his technical, but wasn't very practical about it and definetely not what I would have done.

The referee probably should have granted the technical first, then the timeout request if he was going to be all technical. Because calling things in that order it's like he's saying it's okay to call the timeout, so he grants it. But then he realized the coach wasn't supposed to stand, so he called the technical.

P.S. I see this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by CTom
High school Freshmen game situtation question. Coach A had previously received a direct techinical and has the "seat belt" rule in effect. Under ten seconds left in a close game and Coach A STANDS to call for a time out. Referee grants Time Out and slaps another Techical foul on the coach since he stood up to request the Time Out. Is this 2nd Techincal the proper call? Must the coach now leave the playing area?

Thanks for your replies.

I agree with Brian, welcome to the forum!

I think Brian is also right about the technical. It is within the rules to give it, I suppose, but really not very good game management. The only possibility that you haven't mentioned is that this particular coach was pushing the limits. It's possible that this coach was a real jerk in other ways, and standing up was the final straw. You don't mention, for instance whether he had stayed seated and quiet after the first technical. In general, though, I wouldn't give a T with 10 seconds remaining. Seems like there's got to be a better way to handle this.

[socalreff]

Are you kidding me? It's completely within the coach's rights to stand and request a timeout after he has the seat belt. Unless he is berating an official grant him the TO and that's it. There are still a few things he can stand up for after the 1st Tech including calling TO. Look it up. Others include cheering a play, getting a sub, talking to a player, and more...

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by CTom
Under ten seconds left in a close game and Coach A STANDS to call for a time out. Referee grants Time Out and slaps another Techical foul on the coach since he stood up to request the Time Out. Is this 2nd Techincal the proper call? Must the coach now leave the playing area?

Thanks for your replies.

He has to leave the playing area. But he also gets a chance to puke on the official after the game for making such a dumb-*** call.

Unless this coach's method was to stand up and say "GIVE ME A F***ING TIME OUT", there's no way he should have been T'd a second time.

Good grief.

[ChuckElias]

Tom, welcome to the forum. You came to the right place, but got some bad responses, unfortunately. Here's the applicable rule. It's 10-5-1a in the National Federation of High Schools rule book:

SECTION 5: COACHES' RULE
Art 1. . . The head coach must remain seated on the bench at all times while the clock is running or is stopped except to:
a. Rise and stand in front of his/her seat to request a time-out or to signal his/her players to request a time-out.

So the official should not have issued the second T. And if you were the coach, you should make the official buy you the adult beverage of your choice.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by CTom
Is this 2nd Techincal the proper call?

Assuming the technical was only for standing up, no.

Must the coach now leave the playing area?

Unfortunately, yes.

What people need to remember is that a T charged to a head coach (directly or indirectly) does not require them to remain seated for the entire game - it merely revokes the coaching box. Unfortunately, I don't think that those of us in coaching box states are familiar enough with the provisions of 10-5-1 and 10-5-2.

That said, it would take a lot of courage, but I would hope that the official and his/her partner could get together and perhaps rescind the technical . . .

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Assuming the technical was only for standing up, no.

Unfortunately, yes.

What people need to remember is that a T charged to a head coach (directly or indirectly) does not require them to remain seated for the entire game - it merely revokes the coaching box. Unfortunately, I don't think that those of us in coaching box states are familiar enough with the provisions of 10-5-1 and 10-5-2.

Okay, well, in my own defense (in saying that it would be within the rules to give this T) I haven't heard it interpreted this way before. I"m glad to stand corrected. I think a T is out of line in this situation, as I said.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Assuming the technical was only for standing up, no.

Unfortunately, yes.

What people need to remember is that a T charged to a head coach (directly or indirectly) does not require them to remain seated for the entire game - it merely revokes the coaching box. Unfortunately, I don't think that those of us in coaching box states are familiar enough with the provisions of 10-5-1 and 10-5-2.

That said, it would take a lot of courage, but I would hope that the official and his/her partner could get together and perhaps rescind the technical . . .

Mark, you are totally right. Officials need to take a look at this, just because they have been seatbelted does not mean they cannot stand.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Officials need to take a look at this, just because they have been seatbelted does not mean they cannot stand.

I hate to pull a line used often on the football board, but this is an example of how a "shortcut" in learning the rules can hurt us. A coach is (unfortunately) almost never seatbelted during a game, no matter what he or she does.

[zebraman]

I can think of at least seven things that a coach can still stand to do after losing coaches box privileges:

• 
  Request a time-out or signal a player to request a time-out.
  
• 
  Confer with the table for a correctable error.
  
• 
  Confer with the table for a scoring or timing error.
  
• 
  Confer with the table for a possession arrow error.
  
• 
  Remove an injured or disqualified player.
  
• 
  Confer with the bench.
  

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zebraman
I can think of at least seven things that a coach can still stand to do after losing coaches box privileges:

• 
  Request a time-out or signal a player to request a time-out.
  
• 
  Confer with the table for a correctable error.
  
• 
  Confer with the table for a scoring or timing error.
  
• 
  Confer with the table for a possession arrow error.
  
• 
  Remove an injured or disqualified player.
  
• 
  Confer with the bench.
  

Z

Let's see...

1,.... 2,..... 3,..... 4,....... 5,....... 6,.......

??......

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebraman
I can think of at least seven things that a coach can still stand to do after losing coaches box privileges:

Confer with the bench.

The coach can rise to confer with his/her bench or players only during a timeout or intermission.

A coach can also (1)attend an injured player when beckoned onto the court by an official and (2)rise to react to an outstanding play or acknowledge a replaced player.

[Nevadaref]

I figure it will save some time, if I just post the entire rule which details exactly when a coach who has lost the coaching-box privilege may stand. So here it is:

RULE 10 -- SECTION 5 COACHES' RULE
ART. 1 . . . The head coach must remain seated on the bench at all times while the clock is running or is stopped except to:

a. Rise and stand in front of his/her seat to request a time-out or to signal his/her players to request a time-out.
b. Confer with personnel at scorer's table to request a 60-second time-out (or one 30-second time-out if that is the only type of time-out remaining) for a correctable error as in 2-10, to prevent or rectify a timing or scoring mistake or alternating possession mistake.
c. Replace or remove a disqualified/injured player, or player directed to leave the game, within 30 seconds when a substitute is available, while within the confines of his/her bench.

PENALTY: (Art. 1) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is charged directly to the head coach. (Art. 1b, c) If the error is not correctable under 2-10, or if the mistake as in 5-8-4 cannot be prevented or rectified, a 60-second time-out is charged (or one 30-second, if that is the only type remaining).

ART. 2 . . . The head coach and assistant coach(es) must remain seated on the bench at all times while the clock is running or is stopped except to:

a. Confer with bench personnel and players within the confines of the bench area during a charged time-out or the intermission between quarters and extra periods.
b. Attend an injured player when beckoned onto the court by an official.
c. Rise in front of their seat to spontaneously react to an outstanding play by a member of their team or to acknowledge a replaced player(s), but must immediately return to their seat. (See 1-13-2)

PENALTY: (Art. 2) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her. The foul is charged to the offender (if not the head coach) and also charged indirectly to the head coach.

ART. 3 . . . The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate after being removed from the game for disqualification.

PENALTY: (Art. 3) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is charged directly to the head coach. Penalized if discovered while being violated.

NOTE 1: When the coaching box is being utilized as in 1-13-2 Note, the first technical foul charged directly or indirectly to the head coach results in loss of coaching-box privileges and the coach shall comply with the provisions of 10-5-1 and 10-5-2 for the remainder of the game.

NOTE 2: The third technical foul or the second technical foul charged directly to the head coach or a single flagrant foul results in disqualification and ejection. Ejected adult bench personnel shall leave the vicinity (out of sight and sound) of the playing area immediately and are prohibited from any further contact (direct or indirect) with the team during the remainder of the game. Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited.


[I put Note 1 in bold]

[Jimgolf]

When I saw the topic I thought the punchline was going to be, "And officials drool!"

I've been hanging out with my kids too much.