New NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement

[Dribble]

I LOVE how 4 days of talks led to a new CBA. Take that NHL!!!

Another strike by the NBA would've been costly and I personally like watching the League, so I'm glad there's no delay.

Any thoughts on the minimum age requirement? Racial discrimination like Jermaine O'Neal said or sound move by the NBA and union? IMO as an educator, I think the minimum of 1 year in college is a small, but important development tool for today's young people.

[Edited by Dribble on Jun 21st, 2005 at 11:11 PM]

[South GA BBall Ref]

My thoughts on the minimum age requirement being raised to 19 is that it does nothing for the NBA. One year does not guarantee any additional level of maturity for an individual at that stage in their life. Just look at the "problem people" in the NBA; and for that matter the NFL, MLB, etc. They are not always the 18 year olds that have the issues as many would believe. Although it may not be directly racially discriminatory in nature, it does have impacts in a racial context. Just look at the demographics of those entering the NBA fresh out of high school. As for football, there is often a need to do additional physical growth and development, as well as "learning" the game in which it is played in the NFL, and I can therefore understand the NFL's age limit. But basketball's nuances are minor at the HS, NCAA, and NBA level.

Just my $0.02.

[drothamel]

I'm not really sure how age and race are related. Last time I checked, people of all races age at the same rate, one day per 24 hours. A foreign kid wouldn't be able to get into the league at 18 just like an African-American kid. I think Jermaine is reaching for that one.

I will say, it does make the NHL look even worse, if that is possible!

[South GA BBall Ref]

Originally posted by drothamel
I'm not really sure how age and race are related. Last time I checked, people of all races age at the same rate, one day per 24 hours. A foreign kid wouldn't be able to get into the league at 18 just like an African-American kid. I think Jermaine is reaching for that one.

I will say, it does make the NHL look even worse, if that is possible!

Age and race comes in to play in this arena, due to the fact that age restriction would affect more African American athletes than any other. It appears that more high school NBA draftees are African American. Once again, I'm not saying that the decision of 19 years old being the minumum was racially motivated, only that it affects African Americans more than any other players. Jermain is not reaching, he is just stating the facts and the data of high school draftees. Let's face it, another year's wait could prove detrimental (injury, etc). JMO

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by South GA BBall Ref
Age and race comes in to play in this arena, due to the fact that age restriction would affect more African American athletes than any other.

The fact that the rule affects African Americans more than any other racial or ethnic group does not entail that there is a racist motivation for putting the rule in place.

The NBA's salary cap also affects African Americans more than any other racial or ethnic group. Is the salary cap racially motivated? Of course not. It affects AA's the most simply b/c AA's are the vast majority of NBA players.

The age limit is exactly the same. It affects AA's more than Arabs simply b/c there are overwhelmingly more 18-year-old AA's than 18-yr-old Arabs who are capable of playing in the NBA.

O'Neill simply used the easy wording instead of the correct wording. And he said as much the very next day. He was not accusing Stern and the owners of thinking that Blacks are inferior as human beings. He was only pointing out that Blacks are most affected by the rule.

[South GA BBall Ref]

Chuck:

We are on the sheet of music. I was only agreeing with the outcome in a strict sense of the demographics of draftees and players in the NBA.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by South GA BBall Ref
My thoughts on the minimum age requirement being raised to 19 is that it does nothing for the NBA. One year does not guarantee any additional level of maturity for an individual at that stage in their life. Just look at the "problem people" in the NBA; and for that matter the NFL, MLB, etc. They are not always the 18 year olds that have the issues as many would believe. Although it may not be directly racially discriminatory in nature, it does have impacts in a racial context. Just look at the demographics of those entering the NBA fresh out of high school. As for football, there is often a need to do additional physical growth and development, as well as "learning" the game in which it is played in the NFL, and I can therefore understand the NFL's age limit. But basketball's nuances are minor at the HS, NCAA, and NBA level.

Just my $0.02.

You don't think that the NBA requires "additional physical growth and development, as well as learning the game?" Other than Lebron James, name another player who has come directly out of high school to the NBA and made an impact. Wait, I'll do it for you. No one. Kobe Bryant averaged 7.6 ppg during his first year and Kevin Garnett averaged 10.4. Jermaine O'Neal, who gave up a promising career as a professional fighter to come to the NBA, averaged 4.1, 4.5, 2.9. and 3.5 ppg in his first four years in the league. Yep, that's some impact! HS players are no more ready for the NBA than they are for the NFL.

As for the policy being "racially discriminatory" perhaps you haven't noticed but the head of the players' union is black as well as 80% of the players in the league. Further, for every HS player that comes into the league, a veteran retires. Isn't that age discrimmation, to terminate a person's employment because you're hiring a younger person? There are age requirements throughout life. Do you think NASCAR is going to allow a 17 year old phenom to drive a Cup car? No, pretty sure that they have rules against it.

There's no reason the NBA shouldn't as well.

BTW, none of this means anything for college basketball. These kids will just go to prep school for a year, until they're eligible.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

You don't think that the NBA requires "additional physical growth and development, as well as learning the game?" Other than Lebron James, name another player who has come directly out of high school to the NBA and made an impact. Wait, I'll do it for you. No one. Kobe Bryant averaged 7.6 ppg during his first year and Kevin Garnett averaged 10.4. Jermaine O'Neal, who gave up a promising career as a professional fighter to come to the NBA, averaged 4.1, 4.5, 2.9. and 3.5 ppg in his first four years in the league. Yep, that's some impact! HS players are no more ready for the NBA than they are for the NFL.

As for the policy being "racially discriminatory" perhaps you haven't noticed but the head of the players' union is black as well as 80% of the players in the league. Further, for every HS player that comes into the league, a veteran retires. Isn't that age discrimmation, to terminate a person's employment because you're hiring a younger person? There are age requirements throughout life. Do you think NASCAR is going to allow a 17 year old phenom to drive a Cup car? No, pretty sure that they have rules against it.

There's no reason the NBA shouldn't as well.

BTW, none of this means anything for college basketball. These kids will just go to prep school for a year, until they're eligible.

Well, we should mention the obvious too---- this is a labor agreement. If Jermaine O'Neil and the predominantly-black players' union don't like the new rule, they can vote it down. It's just that simple. Iow, don't complain about it---do something about it. Negotiate something you're happy with.

[JRutledge]

I personally do not have a problem with the age limit. I would like the age limit to be older, like the age of 21.

I think that the issue having to deal with race is a valid one. I do not think race played a role in the reasons the NBA and the Player's Union made this decision, I think it is the reaction to young African-Americans making millions from the media and public has racial overtones.

There is a baseball player in our area that recently got drafted by the Boston Red Sox. This pitcher's team was in the State Finals this season and lost their first game. I did not hear anyone complaining that this kid would skip college (he had a scholarship to Arizona State waiting for him) and go right to the pros. But when it comes to these inner-city kids, many seem to have a big problem if the players want to consider the jump from high school to the pros. When it is the rich and affluent white kids, they can play tennis and baseball and no one blinks and eye to the maturity level and going pro. The young Russian female tennis player that won Wimbledon last year was 17 or 18 when she won the tournament. No one is talking about her maturity and how she can handle her millions.

I do think the new NBA age limit is appropriate because I think the structure of a team sport it is in the best interest of players to get some experience at the college level. One of the differences with the NBA and other sports is there is no farm system to groom these players to the top. If you do not get drafted in the first round, you have no guarantee to make the team. There have been players that have been picked number one in the second round of the NBA draft and did not make the NBA roster the following year. At least baseball players can go into the draft and not throw away there elgiblity. Unfortunately the NBA and NFL do not allow for you to return after you have been in a draft out of high school. Only college players can go into the NBA draft and come back (I am not sure of all the rules the NCAA has to this issue) if their draft status is not perfect.

I also understand completely the feeling of O'Neal and others that comment on these issues when they have experienced it. Not everyone is going to agree or has the same point of view.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I personally do not have a problem with the age limit. I would like the age limit to be older, like the age of 21.

I agree completely, unless the NBA sets up a formal minor league system like MLB, where drafted players go to get their NCAA-level training and development.

I think that the issue having to deal with race is a valid one. I do not think race played a role in the reasons the NBA and the Player's Union made this decision, I think it is the reaction to young African-Americans making millions from the media and public has racial overtones.

I disagree. I don't think the labor union cares too much about what the public thinks about their salaries. I think it had everything to do with a bunch of 32-year-old journeymen who get to hold onto their $2-million-per-year jobs for one more year. JMO.

[Camron Rust]

Let's see here...who will be the most likely person to be drafted instead of the African American 18 year old? A 19-22 year old African American. If there is any argument to be made at all, it would be an age argument.

[Jimgolf]

We need to stop listening to rabble rousers and start using our brains. To say the NBA is in any way racist is ludicrous.

If Jermaine O'Neal had gone to college he would know how stupid his statement was.

This is not to say that there are not racists in the NBA. But the NBA itself is not racist.

I defy anyone to make a case for racism against blacks in an institution where the employees are 80% black, even though the population of the United States is 13% black.

Jermaine O'Neal needs to get a real job and see what it takes for the average working stiff to make payments on a jalopy and still get the rent paid on time.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by JRutledge

There is a baseball player in our area that recently got drafted by the Boston Red Sox. This pitcher's team was in the State Finals this season and lost their first game. I did not hear anyone complaining that this kid would skip college (he had a scholarship to Arizona State waiting for him) and go right to the pros.

Baseball has a well developed farm system. In going to the pros, it is not a produce now or get cut situation. They can send them off the a minor league team to gain the needed experience. For the player, it's a win-win situation. They can get the experience and get paid.

Not so with basketball. You get drafted (2nd round) and don't make the roster, you get cut. There are foreign leagues but it's not quite the same as the MLB and minor leagues where the MLB team has an interest in the minor league team developing the player.

Originally posted by JRutledge

But when it comes to these inner-city kids, many seem to have a big problem if the players want to consider the jump from high school to the pros. When it is the rich and affluent white kids, they can play tennis and baseball and no one blinks and eye to the maturity level and going pro.

It has nothing to with where they grew up. It's usually silly for a kid to declare based on high school performance against high school competition. The number that can cut it is very small. Those that are affected will still get their shot after a year wait.

The point with basketball is that when a high school player goes into the draft, they throw away the opportunity for a free education and a place to gain experience....likely $0 for a majority of them. The pros will still be there after a year or two of college and they will know a lot better if they can cut it with the higher competition.

Affluency also has nothing to do with playing baseball or tennis. They're no more expensive than basketball. There are several free tennis courts around that anyone can play on. However, affluent white kids choose those sports.

Also, the affluent kid is taking a much smaller risk in attempting to go pro since they likely have alternative means of getting into college rather than depending on sport scholarship.

Originally posted by JRutledge
The young Russian female tennis player that won Wimbledon last year was 17 or 18 when she won the tournament. No one is talking about her maturity and how she can handle her millions.

Is that because very few people follow tennis?


[Edited by Camron Rust on Jun 22nd, 2005 at 11:39 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
We need to stop listening to rabble rousers and start using our brains. To say the NBA is in any way racist is ludicrous.

If Jermaine O'Neal had gone to college he would know how stupid his statement was.

This is not to say that there are not racists in the NBA. But the NBA itself is not racist.

I defy anyone to make a case for racism against blacks in an institution where the employees are 80% black, even though the population of the United States is 13% black.

Jermaine O'Neal needs to get a real job and see what it takes for the average working stiff to make payments on a jalopy and still get the rent paid on time.

Racism is not about numbers. Racism is about systems and standards. You do not have to agree with O'Neal's statements, because what I am talking about has nothing to do with O'Neal or his comments. There are some that listen to the tone of the media and those that come to their own conclusion. If you watch PTI, Michael Wilbon makes some very conclusive comments without consideration of what O'Neal says.

O'Neal has a real job. He has a talent that makes him millions. If I had that talent I would do the same.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Jimgolf

If Jermaine O'Neal had gone to college he would know how stupid his statement was.

And this statement is smart?

There are many career fields where a person could just put up the money in one lump sum, get his/her piece of paper and save everyone a lot of time. A college degree does not guarantee maturity, job knowledge or in many cases common sense .