Girl's Basketball..

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mick

In the western U.P., it appears that newer/younger (1st,2nd year) officials are being assigned varsity girls' games, while more experienced officials are being assigned boys' varsity games and are having fewer assignments to girls' varsity.
mick

That's what I was referring to before, mick. Eventually, the girls' coaches will figure this out and they'll complain to ADs, conference comissioners, and assignors. Mark my words, it will happen.

The only feasible solution that we found was to play a VG/VB doubleheader and send one crew to work both games. Quite honestly, two games on Tuesday and Thursday is a lot less taxing on officials than one game played nightly over a 4 day period. It's also better travel wise and is less expensive for the schools with regard to overhead.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

That's what I was referring to before, mick. Eventually, the girls' coaches will figure this out and they'll complain to ADs, conference comissioners, and assignors. Mark my words, it will happen.

The only feasible solution that we found was to play a VG/VB doubleheader and send one crew to work both games. Quite honestly, two games on Tuesday and Thursday is a lot less taxing on officials than one game played nightly over a 4 day period. It's also better travel wise and is less expensive for the schools with regard to overhead.

Tony,
Agreeing here....
This is, in part, what I offered last October to the powers that be.
mick

"I would rather think that any members of Superior Officials Association will take, if possible, the games that they are offered with no regard to gender. Our allegiance should be to the ideals of the game and not necessarily to the quality of contestants.

Obviously some of our local officials will have NCAA conflicts in such a scenario. Many others will find a four night per week schedule either personally, professionally or physically challenging....

Alternatively, with the varying skill levels of officials, it may be worth considering Varsity games (both Boys and Girls) be held at one site while lower level games be held at another. Then, the more experienced officials will be available for the varsity contests regardless of gender. One school could host the varsity games while the other hosts sub-varsity games. With a Varsity/Junior Varsity-Two site scenario, the V/JV games could be held two nights per week, which may allow Middle School/Freshmen games to be held on two other nights. Of course, practice schedules need to be considered, but just taking into consideration the importance of having qualified officials at Varsity games and eliminating the need for any official to be gender specific, administrating Double-Varsity evenings could eliminate gender bias. Of course, the schools and conferences will have their specific parameters as to their particular priorities....


Whether running a V/JV double or a Girls'/Boys' double, using three-official mechanics is undoubtedly the best way to employ the use of the available of officials. The quality of officiating can easily be maintained for the two games, because of the reduced fatigue on any given official. The opportunity of adding a lesser experienced official to work on a crew including two established Varsity officials would add to the number and quality of officials throughout the area. There may be a certain training necessary to bring newer officials up to speed, but Superior Officials Association should be able to bring all of its members up to speed on current mechanics within a few hours of training.
On this note, 3-official crews would exhibit better continuity and consistency, if the crews were maintained (minimally) throughout a given season for Varsity contests, as opposed to the game-by-game, random selection process of pick and choose to put a crew on the floor. Ideally, each crew would have one contact person for the schools or assignors, and each crew would be responsible for putting a full crew on the floor of every contracted game. Through the proper use of pre-gaming, post-gaming, and other meetings, as necessary, a proper, productive and consistent product will be put on the floors."

I guess I want to ask this of the folks from Virginia: Did the number of officials grow when the girls season moved to coincide with the boys?

This I want to ask of the Michigan folks: Are the number of officials that work both seasons, as opposed to one of the season proportionally high or what? I'm still having a little trouble grasping the shortage issue here.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
I guess I want to ask this of the folks from Virginia: Did the number of officials grow when the girls season moved to coincide with the boys?

This I want to ask of the Michigan folks: Are the number of officials that work both seasons, as opposed to one of the season proportionally high or what? I'm still having a little trouble grasping the shortage issue here.

That is want I am thinking as well. I know officials that can only work one sport because their families and job have a problem with so much time away. If the girl's season was normally in the fall, I am sure some football officials were not available to work. If you combine the seasons, then not many has to worry about another sport (popular sport) to get in the way. It would seem to me the numbers would grow.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
This I want to ask of the Michigan folks: Are the number of officials that work both seasons, as opposed to one of the season proportionally high or what? I'm still having a little trouble grasping the shortage issue here.

In my opinion, there is a "perceived" shortage of officials, but not a "real" shortage of officials.

I know good officials with fewer games scheduled for the upcoming dual-season.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mick

Tony,
Agreeing here....
This is, in part, what I offered last October to the powers that be.
mick

"I would rather think that any members of Superior Officials Association will take, if possible, the games that they are offered with no regard to gender. Our allegiance should be to the ideals of the game and not necessarily to the quality of contestants.

Obviously some of our local officials will have NCAA conflicts in such a scenario. Many others will find a four night per week schedule either personally, professionally or physically challenging....

Alternatively, with the varying skill levels of officials, it may be worth considering Varsity games (both Boys and Girls) be held at one site while lower level games be held at another. Then, the more experienced officials will be available for the varsity contests regardless of gender. One school could host the varsity games while the other hosts sub-varsity games. With a Varsity/Junior Varsity-Two site scenario, the V/JV games could be held two nights per week, which may allow Middle School/Freshmen games to be held on two other nights. Of course, practice schedules need to be considered, but just taking into consideration the importance of having qualified officials at Varsity games and eliminating the need for any official to be gender specific, administrating Double-Varsity evenings could eliminate gender bias. Of course, the schools and conferences will have their specific parameters as to their particular priorities....


Whether running a V/JV double or a Girls'/Boys' double, using three-official mechanics is undoubtedly the best way to employ the use of the available of officials. The quality of officiating can easily be maintained for the two games, because of the reduced fatigue on any given official. The opportunity of adding a lesser experienced official to work on a crew including two established Varsity officials would add to the number and quality of officials throughout the area. There may be a certain training necessary to bring newer officials up to speed, but Superior Officials Association should be able to bring all of its members up to speed on current mechanics within a few hours of training.
On this note, 3-official crews would exhibit better continuity and consistency, if the crews were maintained (minimally) throughout a given season for Varsity contests, as opposed to the game-by-game, random selection process of pick and choose to put a crew on the floor. Ideally, each crew would have one contact person for the schools or assignors, and each crew would be responsible for putting a full crew on the floor of every contracted game. Through the proper use of pre-gaming, post-gaming, and other meetings, as necessary, a proper, productive and consistent product will be put on the floors."

mick, you are completely on top of it. They would be wise to heed your words.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
I guess I want to ask this of the folks from Virginia: Did the number of officials grow when the girls season moved to coincide with the boys?

This I want to ask of the Michigan folks: Are the number of officials that work both seasons, as opposed to one of the season proportionally high or what? I'm still having a little trouble grasping the shortage issue here.

Ref Ump, I'll let those guys address your questions but I'll point out what I've gathered from conversations with officials from both states.

It's not that there are fewer officials. It's that there are more games to cover during the same period of time that need to be officiated. Let's say that a local association had 50 games on a given night with a staff 125 officials, 100 of whom are working. But now you add 50 more games. You either have to:

1- add more officials if you want to continue playing on the same that you have in the past,

2- play doubleheaders on the same nights,

3- play games on different nights.

In either 2 or 3, the existing staff is going to work more games during a week. The logistics of working out scheduling and assigning is the nightmare. Games will be covered. But it's the headaches of working everything out that's facing these folks.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mick


In my opinion, there is a "perceived" shortage of officials, but not a "real" shortage of officials.

I know good officials with fewer games scheduled for the upcoming dual-season.
mick

Actually that is what it seems like to me.

Mick, does the state of Michigan have a uniformed training program that deals with 3 Person mechanics? My state requires that all officials attend camps every 3 years to become eligible for license purposes. It is required that those wanting to work post season attend a 6 hour clinic (floor and classroom) in order to be eligible to work the post season. If officials do not attend those clinics, they cannot work the post season at all.

This program was put in around the time our state went to 3 Person for all playoff games (in 97-98 season). Does your state have a similar program in place? I can tell you it really helped officials here learn 3 Person mechanics in the last few years.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Mick, does the state of Michigan have a uniformed training program that deals with 3 Person mechanics? My state requires that all officials attend camps every 3 years to become eligible for license purposes. It is required that those wanting to work post season attend a 6 hour clinic (floor and classroom) in order to be eligible to work the post season. If officials do not attend those clinics, they cannot work the post season at all.

This program was put in around the time our state went to 3 Person for all playoff games (in 97-98 season). Does your state have a similar program in place? I can tell you it really helped officials here learn 3 Person mechanics in the last few years.

Peace

Rut,

Each "Approved" Basketball Association has an MHSAA certified trainer on it's roster, but there is no state mandated training that is required. Training schedules are required to be submitted to the state, but participation is not necessary, except for personal development on an individual level.
All the trainers are told the same thing, that is to follow the NFHS guidelines. Individually, each Trainer will teach three-official mechanics based upon the officials manual, personal experience, training and education.

Until a couple years ago, the MHSAA provided a limited "pre-tournament" training clinic for officials working the Quarterfinal, Semifinal and Final games because three officials were employed at that level only. Now, that clinic has been deemed unecessary because three-official mechanics is quite common, instead of the exception, in the Lower Peninsula.
The Regional Tournament (winners to quarterfinal) now use 3-whistles. Mandatory training is absent; experience is shown to be adequate.
mick

[JRutledge]

Now I have a question for those states that work both girl's and boy's varsity games in the same night.

Do the officials just accept this procedure to work two varsity games in one night? Or is this something that officials complain about much like pay or locker room accommodations, but these things never change?

Where I live there are some conferences that schedule officials to work the JV game and then the Varsity game in one night. Most of the time if we can get out of the JV game, we do. I personally think it affects our ability to work the varsity game, because we are more tired then we would be normally. We work it if we have to, but we do not always like it.

Peace

[mcdanrd]

[i]Do the officials just accept this procedure to work two varsity games in one night? Or is this something that officials complain about much like pay or locker room accommodations, but these things never change?
Peace [/B]

I have never heard any complaints from my fellow officials. This is the way that it's always been and none of us know any better. In Oklahoma every team is in the post season tournament. We have Districts, Areas, Regionals, and State. Even through Regionals officials will still work two games per night. During the state tournament we only work one game.

[ReadyToRef]

In GA, GV and BV play on the same night, with the GV starting at 6 and the BV staring at 7:30. We always work 3 man and do both games. If the teams are close to one another, there will also be two JV games at the same site. A crew of two whistles work both of those games.

No one has brought up the idea of only working one game. I assume because only working one would cut the pay in half and we do seem to have a shortage of officials (most who call in my HS group also work college).

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mcdanrd

I have never heard any complaints from my fellow officials. This is the way that it's always been and none of us know any better.

That is what I kind of figured. Officials around here would have a problem with that (the area I currently live) because they are not used to that kind of procedure. Where I started officiating, it was not totally uncommon to work two games in one night, but officials did what they could to not work both games. We would bring what we called a "runner" to work the JV game and the varsity officials would either alternate quarters or halves. Sometimes officials would just get two officials to work the JV game and pay the "runners" out of what the school paid the assigning official. It is all about what you are used to I guess.

Peace

[dblref]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
I guess I want to ask this of the folks from Virginia: Did the number of officials grow when the girls season moved to coincide with the boys?

This I want to ask of the Michigan folks: Are the number of officials that work both seasons, as opposed to one of the season proportionally high or what? I'm still having a little trouble grasping the shortage issue here.

Speaking only for my association in Northern VA, it did not make much of an impact at all. Being in the DC area, we have a fair amount of military/government people and we do experience a lot of turnover. In my 12 years with the association, I have seen some of the officials (particularly military) come and go 2-3 times. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of our officials did not work "fall ball" before the change. I did work that season.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I had seafood for dinner.

Did you have any pasta with the seafood?

Seafood and pasta provide a nice combination of taste for an inquisitive palette.