Referencing Rule 2-10-1e

[rainmaker]

"Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in... (e) Erroneously counting or canceling a score."

Could several of you please give detailed examples? I'm having trouble with this concept.

[Mark Padgett]

Juulie - it would seem to me that this would cover situations such as mistakenly not indicating not counting a basket on a PC foul, then later discovering the scorer entered the points in the book.

[rockyroad]

Or when one official calls a foul on the shot, doesn't see that the basket should count, and partners don't help out... so then we have not counted the scored basket and could give two free throws where only one is merited, and we are really up the creek now...

[rainmaker]

Thanks for these. Rocky -- could you please continue your scenario through the various possibilities of how to correct it?

I think there must be quite a number of very different scenarios, and I want to see as many as possible.

ALso the various ones that DON"T fit into the correctable error rule.

[brainbrian]

I think this might be an example:

In the NCAA tournament this year a player was fouled and they had a 1 and 1 situation. He shot the first and made it. Then the officials realized they had the wrong shooter on the line. So they erased the bucket, and made the real player shoot the free throws. (He missed the first by the way.)

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by brainbrian
I think this might be an example:

In the NCAA tournament this year a player was fouled and they had a 1 and 1 situation. He shot the first and made it. Then the officials realized they had the wrong shooter on the line. So they erased the bucket, and made the real player shoot the free throws. (He missed the first by the way.)

That's a good example of 2-10-1c or d(book not here in front of me), but not e. E covers situations such as goaltending, bi, 2 or 3 point shot, and as covered above.

The part I have trouble with is to determine when there's a correctable error and when it's just a bad -- or good -- call. A bad call is not reversible, but a ce IS, within the stated time limit.

What I'm asking for is situations when there's an honest error, and not a call.

[blindzebra]

Not allowing continuous motion when a teammate of the shooter is fouled, and the shot goes in after the whistle.

It can also apply when continuous motion is ALLOWED when the teammate commits the foul.

[Camron Rust]

It even applies to what you may be calling a bad call, Juulie.

First shot of the game. Ref indicates a 2. After 2-3 minutes up and down the floor with no dead ball the ref realized that the 3 point line in use is the blue one, not the red one, and it should be a 3. Correctable. Fix the score, continue from POI. After the time window, it becomes uncorrectable.

Ref thought it was a three, signaled a three, scorer entered a three. A bit later, before the time window has expired, there is a timeout. The two refs confer and realize that it should have been a two...one saw a foot on the line but didn't realize the other counted it as a three. Correctable. Fix the score, continue from POI. After the time window, it becomes uncorrectable.

Ref thought it was a three, signaled a three, scorer entered a two. Not "correctable" but fixable...anytime up to the final score is approved.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
First shot of the game. Ref indicates a 2. After 2-3 minutes up and down the floor with no dead ball the ref realized that the 3 point line in use is the blue one, not the red one, and it should be a 3. Correctable. Fix the score, continue from POI. After the time window, it becomes uncorrectable.

So far, so good.

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Ref thought it was a three, signaled a three, scorer entered a three. A bit later, before the time window has expired, there is a timeout. The two refs confer and realize that it should have been a two...one saw a foot on the line but didn't realize the other counted it as a three. Correctable. Fix the score, continue from POI. After the time window, it becomes uncorrectable.

Really? I'd have thought this was a "bad call" and not correctable. I would have guessed it was fixable if the lead whistled and ran in for a quick conference as the call was made, but not within 2-10.

What is a "bad call" that can't be corrected, then? I mean in the context of Art 1 item e.

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Ref thought it was a three, signaled a three, scorer entered a two. Not "correctable" but fixable...anytime up to the final score is approved.

Yup, even I got that one right!

[Stat-Man]

Had a situation a few yearsa go at a national tournament where a referee called a lane violation, but relaized there was none (inadvertant whistle). Only problem was he never told the table about the inadvertant whistle part of the play.

Several mintures later, when the team realized it was hsort a point on the scoreboard, the referee inquired and I let him know we had alane violation. Got told there was none and the free throw should count. Fixed it and we played on

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Really? I'd have thought this was a "bad call" and not correctable. I would have guessed it was fixable if the lead whistled and ran in for a quick conference as the call was made, but not within 2-10.

What is a "bad call" that can't be corrected, then? I mean in the context of Art 1 item e.

Same situation but partner doesn't know that it should be a two. Bad call, not correctable since no one knows for sure.

The reason they can fix it in the quick conference is that it is correctable.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust


The reason they can fix it in the quick conference is that it is correctable.

But a quick conference can yield a change even when a problem is not officially correctable. For instance, I incorrectly call the ball oob off of blue, a quick conference before the ball becomes live again can change that call. But it's not a correctable error. Once the ball is legally inbounded, that's it. The quick conference and the correctable error are two separate situations.

What's an example of a bad call that can't be corrected after the point at which a quick conference is no longer acceptable?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rainmaker

What's an example of a bad call that can't be corrected after the point at which a quick conference is no longer acceptable?

Being called and told your partner has been switched at the last minute to ABC. That's about as bad as a call can be.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker

But a quick conference can yield a change even when a problem is not officially correctable. For instance, I incorrectly call the ball oob off of blue, a quick conference before the ball becomes live again can change that call. But it's not a correctable error. Once the ball is legally inbounded, that's it. The quick conference and the correctable error are two separate situations.

What's an example of a bad call that can't be corrected after the point at which a quick conference is no longer acceptable?

The ball becoming live again doesn't end the opportunity for the conference regarding a shot (2 vs. 3). Otherwise, you'd have to beat the other team getting the ball at their disposal.

The case about a ball going OOB remains "fixable" not until the ball becomes live (in the thrower's hands) but until the throwin has ended. You mention that but you also mentioned that the conference was before the ball became live.

Example of a bad call that can't be fixed at all:
Ref thinks Coach A is requesting a timeout (it was really someone in the stands). Ref blows the whistle and grants the timeout. Bad call...not correctable/fixable at any time (by rule...although most will do the right thing and not charge the timeout).