Whistles' Anonymous Meeting #1: The Battle of the Sexes

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by imaref

Chris....

But, you do have to tell them to tuck their jerseys in more often. (Me thinks it has something to do with being more self conscious about their waistlines. The jersey being out or "tucked in"...then "bloused" to have the extra material overlap the waistband creates a less defined waistline.) For some officials, this "leaving your shirts untucked" might help cover that 'beer belly'. :

Guys leave their jerseys untucked because it's an "attitude" thing!

They could make those jersey lengths down to the ankles...players would still find a way to get it untucked.

moving on.....

wl

I didn't say "always" or "never". I also don't agree with you about girls jerseys untucked more but we may be splitting hairs.

[imaref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
[B]

Originally posted by imaref

I didn't say "always" or "never". I also don't agree with you about girls jerseys untucked more but we may be splitting hairs.

Chris....

Must be just a regional thing!

wl

[rainmaker]

I think some of the differences we're discussing here may be local or regional. It's very possible that in one locale the attitude toward keeping the jersey tucked in is much different from what it is 1000 miles away. I also think it depends a lot on the coaches' attitudes, and that may vary.

I do think girls tend to hold a grudge in longer. Things can skate along fine, and all of a sudden one lashes out. I've seen that, too. Boys are more open about conflict. Generally. Any particular individual may do things differently but as a rule, I've seen this pattern too.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I think some of the differences we're discussing here may be local or regional.

Juulie, for the most part I think the "regional" argument used on this board is usually a bunch of crap (mostly just one particular member's way of getting out of having to admit that he is full of $hit again)...but in this case I think we have an advantage over some regions of the country...the Oregon City tournament and the one at UW in the summer are two of the top 3 girl's tournaments in the country - plus we have some pretty amazing programs in the area - not just HS but also some of the college programs (Seattle Pacific playing for the D-2 national championship, Oregon and UW and Gonzaga all having great seasons the last few years, etc)...so I think the level of girl's ball might be higher around here than in some other areas. Could be why we don't see the same things some of these people are posting about.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I think some of the differences we're discussing here may be local or regional. It's very possible that in one locale the attitude toward keeping the jersey tucked in is much different from what it is 1000 miles away. I also think it depends a lot on the coaches' attitudes, and that may vary.

I do think girls tend to hold a grudge in longer. Things can skate along fine, and all of a sudden one lashes out. I've seen that, too. Boys are more open about conflict. Generally. Any particular individual may do things differently but as a rule, I've seen this pattern too.

I can agree with that. Seems that with boys, they will "get you back" within a minute or so. With girls, they might wait a couple of quarters or even get you back the next game. My Daughter remembers opponents jersey numbers from this past season and what they did to upset her.

[imaref]

Cheezz.....

[socalreff]

You can believe if you want that girls basketball is better in the Northwest, but every time I've seen teams come to SoCal they get killed. I think it doesn't get any better than SoCal--boys and girls. As far as the girls not talking trash or being better sports---it's not without exceptions. But in general, they are much better about letting us do our job and just playing the game. For me it's much more enjoyable to be able to just ref the game without all the extraneous nonsense that has become far too prevalent in boys and mens basketball. Sure it's a challenge, but it's one we as officials shouldn't be putting up with, especially on the high school level.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by socalreff
You can believe if you want that girls basketball is better in the Northwest, but every time I've seen teams come to SoCal they get killed.

That's funny - the teams from SoCal that I see come up here always get killed...didn't see any HS teams this season, but had several small college teams - CSUBakersfield, Chapman, and a couple others I can't remember right now, and they all got thumped...oh well.

[BBall_Junkie]

For someone with only with only 8 posts you sure have stuffed your foot in your mouth a bunch. I count at least 3 out of the 8.

I grew up and played ball in SoCal, Orange County to be exact and am quite familiar with the caliber of basketball. Although it is quite good, I would not say or imply that it is better there than anywhere else.

I now live and officiate in Houston. We have hosted the Nike/Academy Invitational over the last three years and the SoCal teams have not faired that well here. The year previous Fairfax and Mater Dei both got dumped by a Houston Team (Milby HS). This year Westchester had their butts handed to them by Christ the King out of NY.

Just a suggestion, you might want to post with a little less "attitute" and your comments and thoughts might be received better.

[Edited by BBall_Junkie on Apr 1st, 2005 at 01:21 PM]

[socalreff]

Okay. No more attitude. I grew up on the East Coast so I'm pretty well versed on the national basketball scene. I'm not necessarily talking about just the top teams in certain areas. I'm talking in general about the overall depth in SoCal. Lots and lots of players. I've done plenty of tourneys with teams from all over the country and know that there is tremendous talent anywhere you go.

[stmaryrams]

Originally posted by drothamel
Someone brought up an excellent point about skill development at an early age. I think this has a lot to do with the differences in the game at a higher level. It is very likely to see a group of young boys playing a pickup game of basketball, much less likely that you would see young girls doing the same thing. As with most sports, the best players tend to be the ones that have been playing the sport for the longest time. On average, boys tend to play much more than girls over the course of their youth. Around here, this is certainly true in the rec leagues. The younger leagues are filled with boys and a few girls. This probably has a lot to do with the differences in the two games by the time the kids make it to high school.

I see this in lower levels especially. Take Varsity vs JV vs Frosh vs Jr High - the skill levels between two teams can be huge.

I had a JV girls game last year with a final score of 56-11. The coach with 56 did everything she could to keep the score reasonable, put in subs early, worked half court offense, took of press. Just an overmatched team.

I had some boys blowouts but none like this.

[JRutledge]

One of the biggest differences is what happens in the playoffs with both sides. Everyone in our state makes the playoffs. Teams are seeded by Sectionals and there are 16 sectionals. It is usually very predictable who is going to go to the State Finals (last 8 teams) almost every year. You can count on 2 or 3 teams making it from the beginning of the season. On the boy's side upsets happen all the time. A team in the regional I worked went all the way to the Super-Sectional and no one would have ever guessed they would win in the regional. Forty point wins almost never happen, even with the teams that barely win a single game. Blowouts are common on the girl's side. The main reason I think this is the case, the boy's play year round and have been playing the game since they could walk. Girl's pick up the game much later than boys and the better players seemed to play more with boy's as they were growing up. They talked about this on the McDonald's All-American Girl's game. Almost all those players had a brother or their father played basketball with them a lot and influenced their games. In other words they play like the guys and they dominate their fellow girl opponents. The better girl's players do not shy away from contact and in many cases are fearless. Many boy's play football and basketball contact does not at all faze them.

There are good players all over the country. I know this area in the last 10 years on the Women's side there have been several Illinois players that have won national championships. Whether they were on Purdue, Notre Dame or Tennessee, there were key players on each of these teams NC teams. Who cares which area is better? I have watched tournament games on TV and the game looks pretty much the same as it does here.

Peace

[babyref]

the girls game i usually ref tend to be more aggessive then the boys games i think it because guys dont want to touch each other

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Do you consider it fundamental to bring the ball down after you take control of the ball? Do you consider it fundamental to slap at the ball during a rebound, instead of just grabbing the ball? Do you consider it fundamental to try to dribble through 3 defenders in the lane, and then complain you were fouled by the defenders that did not need to move to stop the ball?

Not sure what is so fundamental about girl's basketball with all the head balls and many of the decision making that I see in girl's basketball.

Peace

By fundamentally sound, I did not mean it necessarily as a complement. I see a lot of girls games, and I see many girls that move and shoot just like they leaned from a book, and not from playing. Most girls look like they learned to shoot from a Tom Nordland Swish Method tape.

Boys tend to put more of their own individuality and personality into their game. Whether or not that's a good thing depends on the player.

BTW, the miscues you mention are more a result of upper body strength development than training. And I rarely see girls try to dribble between three defenders. They usually pass in a situation like that. And "Where's the foul, ref?" is the cry of boys far more often than girls.

[stmaryrams]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
And "Where's the foul, ref?" is the cry of boys far more often than girls.
[/B]

I have heard that in several City League girls games. A fellow official had a girl say that to him and replied "WHACK" - "Here it is."