Whistles' Anonymous Meeting #1: The Battle of the Sexes

[ranjo]

Originally posted by rainmaker

These kinds of observations are very interesting to me and just what I want the thread to be concentrated on.

Your observation about calling closely, and game flow, doesn't match with my experience. My biggest varsity game this season had a team that ended up second in the state, and a team in their league who could very easily have upended them. My evaluator was critical that we called it too tight. He thought we should have let a lot more go. They seemed to want to allow any mugging that didn't actually put them on the floor, and my evaluator said we should have called it that way.

I wonder if it's a regional thing. Around here, I think girls get away with a lot more than boys.

I agree that the higher the level of play, the more coaches and players accept incidental (and more) contact.

I believe many of the better girls players are the ones who regularly scrimmage and play pick-up games with the boys. Even some college girls teams scrimage against boys. (I believe I read an article recently saying the NCAA was thinking about prohibiting that practice - Probably better saved for a new topic)

Yes, we have to call the game the way our evaluators want us to, but I don't like for the style of play to change what I perceive is or is not a foul.

In my area I don't think the girls get away with more than the boys.

[mcdanrd]

About knnee pads, I don't see them much around here. Almost never. [/B][/QUOTE]

I think the knee pads may be an appearance thing. It's true, many girls were knee pads and I don't remember ever seeing a guy wear knee pads, BUT... to a guy a bloody knee is a badge of honor or courage, to a girl it's an ugly scar that will detrat from her appearance.

[Gozer]

The biggest difference I see between girls and boys ball is body checking. You know the i'm going to straddle your leg and push my body on yours in girls. If they guys do that they just throw an arm.

Anyway my 2c

Kenny

[coachgbert]

Originally posted by mcdanrd
About knnee pads, I don't see them much around here. Almost never.

I think the knee pads may be an appearance thing. It's true, many girls were knee pads and I don't remember ever seeing a guy wear knee pads, BUT... to a guy a bloody knee is a badge of honor or courage, to a girl it's an ugly scar that will detrat from her appearance. [/B][/QUOTE]

As a girls youth coach I encourage my younger players to wear knee pads. Knee injuries are 50% more common in girl athletes then in boys. There is 50% more twisting motion of the knee in untrained athletes on impact with the floor, resulting in greater injuries to young knees. How often do you see girls on the floor? Lots in my games, therefore there is no harm and maybe some good in having the knee protected from impact with the floor.

There is a considerable physical difference in some girls at the same age and grade. I can have 5'10" 170 pound girls in 7th grade playing against 4'11" girls that weigh 80 pounds soaking wet. I've seen my small, light weight point guards fly from contact. I also know how painful a knee cap bruise can be and how it can prohibit full range of motion. Knee pads can prevent those injuries. They aren't just to prevent a cut that looks bad at the beach.

I am a stong advocate of knee pads and strength training, including learning to jump and land properly, foot work and running by young girls. Girl athletes have a higher incidence of torn ACL's then boys because of the way the muscles are arranged, the fact that they get a later start in sports then boys and the anatomical differences of pelvic width, muscle strength differences between quads and ham strings, and other differences.

I don't require that knee pads be worn on my teams, but many, many girls in Ohio wear them in youth leagues, so it's not a big deal. The older the girls get and the more skilled they get, the less they seem to end up on the floor. By middle school the knee pads have almost disappered from the game.

Coach Gbert

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by coachgbert

As a girls youth coach I encourage my younger players to wear knee pads. Knee injuries are 50% more common in girl athletes then in boys.

Is this because girl's knees are generally closer to the floor to begin with than boy's knees?

I mean because of the height difference. Get your mind out of the gutter.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I mean because of the height difference. Get your mind out of the gutter.

I think yours is the only mind in the gutter!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I think yours is the only mind in the gutter!

Yes - but it's such a nice gutter.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Yes - but it's such a nice gutter.

Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here....

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by coachgbert

As a girls youth coach I encourage my younger players to wear knee pads. Knee injuries are 50% more common in girl athletes then in boys. There is 50% more twisting motion of the knee in untrained athletes on impact with the floor, resulting in greater injuries to young knees. How often do you see girls on the floor? Lots in my games, therefore there is no harm and maybe some good in having the knee protected from impact with the floor.

There is a considerable physical difference in some girls at the same age and grade. I can have 5'10" 170 pound girls in 7th grade playing against 4'11" girls that weigh 80 pounds soaking wet. I've seen my small, light weight point guards fly from contact. I also know how painful a knee cap bruise can be and how it can prohibit full range of motion. Knee pads can prevent those injuries. They aren't just to prevent a cut that looks bad at the beach.

I am a stong advocate of knee pads and strength training, including learning to jump and land properly, foot work and running by young girls. Girl athletes have a higher incidence of torn ACL's then boys because of the way the muscles are arranged, the fact that they get a later start in sports then boys and the anatomical differences of pelvic width, muscle strength differences between quads and ham strings, and other differences.

I don't require that knee pads be worn on my teams, but many, many girls in Ohio wear them in youth leagues, so it's not a big deal. The older the girls get and the more skilled they get, the less they seem to end up on the floor. By middle school the knee pads have almost disappered from the game.

Coach Gbert

I doubt knee pads will prevent any major injury such as an ACL tear. The ACL is almost always torn before the knee ever hits the floor. (I know, I tore mine). Same thing with meniscus and other injurys. It's infrequently the contact with the floor.

The biggest difference between boys and girls is anatomy. In fact, it's not really a strict gender differnce that makes the injury more prevalent in girls. Boys and girls with the same knee geometry have the same rate of ACL tears. One of the biggest factors is a narrow intracondylar notch...the space between the two rounded areas on the end of the femur. It just happens that more girls have a narrow intra-condylar notch.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Apr 4th, 2005 at 04:44 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Camron Rust


I doubt knee pads will prevent any major injury such as and ACL tear. The ACL is almost always torn before the knee ever hits the floor. (I know, I tore mine). Same thing with meniscus and other injurys. It's infrequently the contact with the floor.

The biggest difference between boys and girls is anatomy. In fact, it's not really a strict gender differnce that makes the injury more prevalent in girl. Boys and girls with the same knee geometry have the same rate of ACL tears. One of the biggest factors is a narrow intra-condular notch...the space between the two rounded area on the end of the femur. It just happens that more girls have a narrow intra-condular notch.

I do not if that is entirely true.

I was told by a managing trainer that females get more knee tears or problems as a result of their body structure. According to this trainer women have bigger hips and their knees tend to be forced inward, which puts more stress on their knees. He said that girl's or women tend to have many more knee tears than boy's or men. Of course it is not scientific, but I have seen more girls at the HS level lose most of the season or all of a season with ACL and MCL tears. Of course it happens to many boys as well, but it seems to be more so in football. For some reason it does not happen to boys that often as it does girls. I watch the NCAA tournament and it seems like every other game they talk about some player that did not play a great deal of the season because of a knee injury. I cannot think of any major player on the men's game that even gets an injury and they lose a great deal of their career as a result. There are a lot of top womenÂ’s players that have had those type of injuries. It sounds like what this trainer told me recently has some truth to it.

Now I am just passing on information. I hope no one will start taking this as a genetics issue. I am just sharing what someone said to me that is much more educated on this issue than I am. I do know that Candace Parker (Tennessee Player from Naperville, Illinois) had 3 knee injuries, two on one knee. I cannot think of any boy in our area that has had that kind of number of knee injuries.

Peace

[coachgbert]

I too doubt that knee pads will "prevent" an ACL tear, I do know that there is more twisting motion of the knee in girls when an untrained athlete hits the floor. That may or may not contribute to an ACL tear. It can't hurt that there is a pad prior to the knee impacting the floor. Increased training on proper mechanics of running and jumping, landing and footwork can all help to prevent ACL tears and knee injuries. Girls generally do not have the benefit of this training, but jump into (no pun intended) sports without proper warm-up and with coaches who emphasize winning instead of player/athlete development and training.

Wide hips, knees that tend to knock as girls grow, the hormones of puberty that contribute to lax ligaments and improper training are also responsible for greater incidences of knee injuries in girls.

Girls can choose to wear them or not. I advise parents of the literature and research that I have regarding knee injuries and let them make the decision. I was pointing out that they don't hurt and others in sports medicine feel they are more usefull then just preventing unsightly knees (something my 9u - 14u players don't care about anyway).


Coach Gbert


[Edited by coachgbert on Apr 4th, 2005 at 04:32 PM]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by coachgbert
I too doubt that knee pads will "prevent" an ACL tear, I do know that there is more twisting motion of the knee in girls when an untrained athlete hits the floor. That may or may not contribute to an ACL tear. It can't hurt that there is a pad prior to the knee impacting the floor. Increased training on proper mechanics of running and jumping, landing and footwork can all help to prevent ACL tears and knee injuries. Girls generally do not have the benefit of this training, but jump into (no pun intended) sports without proper warm-up and with coaches who emphasis winning instead of player/athlete development and training.

Wide hips, knees that tend to knock as girls grow, the hormones of puberty that contribute to lax ligaments and improper training are also responsible for greater incidences of knee injuries in girls.

Girls can choose to wear them or not. I advise parents of the literature and research that I have regarding knee injuries and let them make the decision. I was pointing out that they don't hurt and others in sports medicine feel they are more usefull then just preventing unsightly knees (something my 9u - 14u players don't care about anyway).


Coach Gbert

Coach, when I had my ACL done my doctor & physical therapists told me OTC knee braces are useless in preventing knee injuries related to twisting or hyper-extension, which is what we're talking about. After my surgery I wore a brace designed to protect against these things for about a year, actually longer than I needed it but I was scairdy-fraid to play ball without it! It was custom fit & I recall it cost about $1200, maybe more, at the time. Obviously strengthening the hamstrings, butt & quads is the best way to prevent these injuries.

I do agree wearing knee pads will save a lot of wear & tear on the kneecaps & covering tendon if you expect to be hitting the floor. I just wouldn't tell these kids parents that they'll protect against anything else. And attaboys for being aware enough to make it part of your practice/training!