Whistles' Anonymous Meeting #1: The Battle of the Sexes

[M&M Guy]

I know we're talking generalities here, but I do think the girls play at a "lower" level due to starting later in life. Therefore, they have a tendancy to be a little more fundementally sound to make up for the skill difference. However, I have seen a few girl's H.S. teams that could easily beat several boy's teams I've seen this season.

Another thing I've noticed (once again, in general), boys get mad while girls get even. For example, if you get some chippy play in a boys game, the players will stare at each other, growl a little, say "Your momma!", and it's over. With girls, there may be a wayward elbow or hard screen, but the retaliation may not happen until two quarters later. I've found I have to be a little more aware of that.

[icallfouls]

One thing to consider is that for the most part the women's game has not evolved at the same pace as the men's game. However, thanks to Pat Summit's dominant teams for the past twenty-five years and Title 9, more resources have been given to the development of women's basketball. Look at what has happened the last 15 years. There is more than two excellent teams (Tenn & La Tech), now there is UConn, Tenn, Stanford, Purdue, Mich St and the like. don't forget the WNBA is only 6 years old. Also, if you have noticed in this years tourney, not every higher seed got as far as expected. Translated, it means that one any given night....more of the less talented teams have a better chance than in past years.

This topic has been discussed nationally, and it has a lot to do with the physical make up of the sexes. The women's game has gotten faster, not faster than the men, but in relation to the previous athletes. They will probably never have the high flying action that the men have, but they will continue to evolve. Camps are now aimed specifically for the women and even for grade school girls.

Now, having said all that, I worked a college, in conference game this year where the score was 54 - 8 at HALFTIME!

[Edited by icallfouls on Mar 31st, 2005 at 11:57 AM]

[Rick Durkee]

Before becoming an official, I coached both boys and girls varsity sports (basketball and softball) for about ten years. I am going to support what others have already said, but try to connect the ideas.

I think there is one big differences, and that is the amount of time the boys participate outside of the season and practice time, including watching games on television.

Boys play a lot without somebody coaching them. They become more creative and find moves and styles that work for them in pick-up ball. This goes a long way toward explaining why the boys games look different from girls games. Boys demonstrate a larger repertoire of skills and moves and individual flexibility, and the girls try to follow the coach's guidance, which looks more "fundamental". Coaches ask boys to stop doing things that have made them successful "on the playground" because they may not work in a more structured game or doesn't fit into the coach's "system" or team concept. They have developed habits. They are resistant to change and more difficult to coach. Boys watch more hoops on television. They try to emulate players, echo things that announcers and analysts say, and think they know more than their local coach or official because the heard it from somebody associated with an NBA game.

As much as I hate to say it, the average girl may be more coachable because she has lower self-esteem than the average boy (at least with regard to athletic ability). This makes girls more coachable because they are more apt to believe that the coach knows more than they do.

[socalreff]

I'm glad that most of you don't realize what a pleasure it is to do a good women's college game. More games for us. I have done plenty of men's games too, so I have perspective on both sides. Some things that are different: for the most part, women just play the game. They don't waste time complaining about calls. They don't waste time talking trash to their opponents or trying to show how macho they are. Sure they don't play above the rim, but they play the right way. They still know how to shoot a 16 footer. Make a bounce pass. I'm not talking about a lower high school level, but good collegiate players. I just have more fun doing a good women's game.

[Mark Padgett]

Let me put it this way: I've never had a boy come up to be during a game and ask me to watch a certain player on the other team because that player "wasn't being very nice to me."

[ranjo]

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Here's a difference:

Men's regional finals:

Arizona vs. Illinois attendance: 16,957
West Virginia vs. Louisville attendance: 15,896
Wisconsin vs. North Carolina attendance: 30,132
Michigan St. vs. Kentucky attendance: 16,239


Women's regional finals:

Duke vs. LSU attendance: 5,086
Baylor vs. North Carolina attendance: 3,213
Rutgers vs. Tennessee attendance: 6,452
Stanford vs. Michigan St. attendance: 2,475

One of the problems with female athletics in general is they don't support their own as shown in the above attendance counts. Girls will show up to watch the boys game, but not the girls game. Even at higher levels (College - WNBA), there are just as many or more men supporting the female athletes than women


I enjoy officiating a "well played" boys or girls game. I do find I call them differently. Doing a girls game I call a closer more fundamental game (which seems to be what they expect.) Refereeing a boys game, the expectation is to let a little more incedental contact go and have more flow in the game.

In general, girls and their coaches seem to want all contact called and are not as concerned about game flow.

Just MY Opinion

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ranjo
I enjoy officiating a "well played" boys or girls game. I do find I call them differently. Doing a girls game I call a closer more fundamental game (which seems to be what they expect.) Refereeing a boys game, the expectation is to let a little more incedental contact go and have more flow in the game.

In general, girls and their coaches seem to want all contact called and are not as concerned about game flow.

These kinds of observations are very interesting to me and just what I want the thread to be concentrated on.

Your observation about calling closely, and game flow, doesn't match with my experience. My biggest varsity game this season had a team that ended up second in the state, and a team in their league who could very easily have upended them. My evaluator was critical that we called it too tight. He thought we should have let a lot more go. They seemed to want to allow any mugging that didn't actually put them on the floor, and my evaluator said we should have called it that way.

I wonder if it's a regional thing. Around here, I think girls get away with a lot more than boys.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by socalreff
They don't waste time complaining about calls.

Yeah, sure.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by socalreff
They don't waste time complaining about calls. They don't waste time talking trash to their opponents or trying to show how macho they are.

The only game I threw out a player for throwing a punch was a girl's game. I have had to stop many girls from getting in the face of another player. It is clear you have never officiated a game in my area. You would see those things rather differently.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by socalreff
They don't waste time complaining about calls. They don't waste time talking trash to their opponents or trying to show how macho they are.

Yea...girls are made of sugar and spice and everything nice...but, there are exceptions...


http://www.killsometime.com/Video/vi...deo=Girl-Fight

This was video taped by an official that had just officiated a basketball game between two heated rivilary's in Rec League on a Saturday afternoon in Whicata, Kansas last year on 4/1/04.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by RookieDude
This was video taped by an official that had just officiated a basketball game between two heated rivilary's in Rec League on a Saturday afternoon in Whicata, Kansas last year on 4/1/04.

Yea, things have always been particularly rugged in Whicata.

Now, could we get back to some non-judgemental comparisons between men's and women's or boy's and girl's basketball?

Thank you.

[PGCougar]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Do you consider it fundamental to bring the ball down after you take control of the ball? Do you consider it fundamental to slap at the ball during a rebound, instead of just grabbing the ball? Do you consider it fundamental to try to dribble through 3 defenders in the lane, and then complain you were fouled by the defenders that did not need to move to stop the ball?

Not sure what is so fundamental about girl's basketball with all the head balls and many of the decision making that I see in girl's basketball.

Peace

Um... If you haven't seen these very same things in boy's basketball, then you haven't seen much boys basketball either...

[imaref]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

You never have to talk to players in a girls game and tell them to pull up their shorts.

Chris....

But, you do have to tell them to tuck their jerseys in more often. (Me thinks it has something to do with being more self conscious about their waistlines. The jersey being out or "tucked in"...then "bloused" to have the extra material overlap the waistband creates a less defined waistline.) For some officials, this "leaving your shirts untucked" might help cover that 'beer belly'. :

Guys leave their jerseys untucked because it's an "attitude" thing!

They could make those jersey lengths down to the ankles...players would still find a way to get it untucked.

moving on.....

wl

[socalreff]

Posted by Rutledge:
The only game I threw out a player for throwing a punch was a girl's game. I have had to stop many girls from getting in the face of another player. It is clear you have never officiated a game in my area. You would see those things rather differently.

What happened in the game to get it to that point? Was it because, as I've seen far too often, there were officials on the game who refused to call what needed to be called because it's a stupid girls' game? And they're just trying to get out of there as fast as possible by not blowing the whistle? I've heard officials say things like " What a great game--only an hour and 5 minutes"--meanwhile all the players are black and blue from contact that was let go. I'm not saying things can't happen in any game, anywhere; but generally in a well officiated women's game, they don't cry wolf nearly as much as the men. And when they do complain, it's for about 5 seconds and they're done. Men keep on forever.
Another great aspect in the women's game is the lack of egos amongst the officials. They are much more intent on just getting plays right and trusting each other. Too many egos on the men's side trying to "one-up" each other.

[JRutledge]

socalreff,

I am not seeing your point. I was not talking about not calling things because of time. I was not calling things because the it would be against the rules to just call things when a defender is just standing there. I do not care how long a game takes. But I do not want to have to call more things because girls are taught that any contact there has to be a call. That is the same way I call things when I work boy's games. The rules are the same on both sides.

Peace