OOB without authorization?

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

The angle definitely does allow the player to pass around the defense.

Especially, if the defense is zoning them.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

The angle definitely does allow the player to pass around the defense.

BITS, just how is a cross court pass that has to go past the backboard, basket, net, supports, and any defenders that jump to challenge it an advantage?

As I said earlier you see players make this pass all the time when they are trapped on the sideline or feed the post on the endline.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Say what? When did the player jump OOB to make the toss across the key. The toss across the key was made by a player that was in bounds, by rule. The player went OOB after making a play--no different than a shooter going OOB after making a lay-up. Do you wanna "T" those plays up too?

2) When exactly is the player making the pass in this play not not within the confines of the playing court, pray tell? Isn't he completely in bounds when he makes the pass? How can the POE apply to an in-bounds player?

3) When did anybody allow a player to "jump and land out of bounds to make a pass" in this play? The pass was made in-bounds by an in-bounds player.

There is absolutely no rules justification to call a technical foul on this play. It is completely legal, as per the rules. The FED POE was issued to stop players from going OOB to gain an advantage. You can't penalize them for making a legal play before they go OOB.

JR:

I could have sworn that I was the one that wrote your post. Great logic. Keep up the good work.]

MTD, Sr.

[BamaRef]

This is a strange play. The way it works is the dribbler dribbles hard toward the baseline. At about the point were the three point line touches the baseline the player leaps as far out of bounds as he can and while in the air passes the ball to the other side of the court where his teammate receives it and shoots a 3 point shot.

The thing that gets me is the team that uses this play can't execute it on their home court because there is not enough room for their player to jump, pass the ball around the cheerleaders,and avoid hitting the wall. However, when they go to the new schools in their area, there is plenty of room because the cheerleaders are set back much farther and there is much more room. The player who executes this play is a great athlete, getting between 6ft to 8ft off the baseline when he throws the pass across the court. He lands about 8ft out of bounds when he comes down. That is why I thought he was choosing to leave the court on his own, not just his momentum carrying him off. But as has been mentioned, I can see where the defender can do the same thing if he so desires. I have seen this team execute this play 4, 5, 6 times during a game.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by BamaRef
This is a strange play. The way it works is the dribbler dribbles hard toward the baseline. At about the point were the three point line touches the baseline the player leaps as far out of bounds as he can and while in the air passes the ball to the other side of the court where his teammate receives it and shoots a 3 point shot.

The thing that gets me is the team that uses this play can't execute it on their home court because there is not enough room for their player to jump, pass the ball around the cheerleaders,and avoid hitting the wall. However, when they go to the new schools in their area, there is plenty of room because the cheerleaders are set back much farther and there is much more room. The player who executes this play is a great athlete, getting between 6ft to 8ft off the baseline when he throws the pass across the court. He lands about 8ft out of bounds when he comes down. That is why I thought he was choosing to leave the court on his own, not just his momentum carrying him off. But as has been mentioned, I can see where the defender can do the same thing if he so desires. I have seen this team execute this play 4, 5, 6 times during a game.

Basically you are shifting the zone D towards one side then quickly reversing to the other side for an open 3. Has all the markings of a Morgan Wooten zone offense play.

[JRutledge]

This is what I talk about as to being a rulebook official.

You are reading way too much into the situation. The interpretations in no way address this situation. As I have said I have never seen such a play to where I think it was a problem. If you feel it is, call that. I would really like you to be able to explain that to someone that hires you for games. I understand that you might think something is wrong with this action. Being an official is also being able to sell what we call as much as it is showing we know what the rules say. I do not see anyone else calling this a T but you. If you are alright with that, then be a maverick and do not be surprise if you might not be asked back. From my point of view all you are doing is proving you read the rulebook. You are not proving to me you are using any common sense or applying the intent of the rules committee.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by BamaRef
This is a strange play. The way it works is the dribbler dribbles hard toward the baseline. At about the point were the three point line touches the baseline the player leaps as far out of bounds as he can and while in the air passes the ball to the other side of the court where his teammate receives it and shoots a 3 point shot.

The thing that gets me is the team that uses this play can't execute it on their home court because there is not enough room for their player to jump, pass the ball around the cheerleaders,and avoid hitting the wall. However, when they go to the new schools in their area, there is plenty of room because the cheerleaders are set back much farther and there is much more room. The player who executes this play is a great athlete, getting between 6ft to 8ft off the baseline when he throws the pass across the court. He lands about 8ft out of bounds when he comes down. That is why I thought he was choosing to leave the court on his own, not just his momentum carrying him off. But as has been mentioned, I can see where the defender can do the same thing if he so desires. I have seen this team execute this play 4, 5, 6 times during a game.

It should never work more than once, and would be extremely easy to defend because of the distance of the pass.

[stilerng]

On a throw in, if a team mate reaches across the ob line and catches a pass it is a violation. The ball is supposed to be thrown in bounds and is to stay in bounds from that point. I don't see the play in question as the same as saving a ball that is headed out of bounds. The point of emp. as well as the throw in rule says the game is to be played ON the court. The player is surely (legally)inbounds but he is not on the court. If we judge there is a clear unfair advantage gained or that the player (by way of the coach) is trying to circumvent the rules we should make the call. However I think I need a little more to go on to believe this is whats happening and would let it go.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by stilerng
1)On a throw in, if a team mate reaches across the ob line and catches a pass it is a violation. The ball is supposed to be thrown in bounds and is to stay in bounds from that point.

2)I don't see the play in question as the same as saving a ball that is headed out of bounds. The point of emp. as well as the throw in rule says the game is to be played ON the court. The player is surely (legally)inbounds but he is not on the court. If we judge there is a clear unfair advantage gained or that the player (by way of the coach) is trying to circumvent the rules we should make the call. However I think I need a little more to go on to believe this is whats happening and would let it go.

1)What has that got to do with anything? It's completely irrelevant.

2)Sigh. What unfair advantage is being gained in this play? What rule is the player trying to circumvent? There's nothing at all to judge on this play because you don't have any rules basis to make a call of any kind. It's that simple. If you can think of a rule that is being broken, post the rule number.

[stilerng]

1)What has that got to do with anything? It's completely irrelevant.

2)Sigh. What unfair advantage is being gained in this play? What rule is the player trying to circumvent? There's nothing at all to judge on this play because you don't have any rules basis to make a call of any kind. It's that simple. If you can think of a rule that is being broken, post the rule number.

I cited #1 to reason that the game is expected to be played on the court. It seems reasonable to consider other situations concerning IB or OB.
Unfair advantage? I said UNLESS.
Rules - It would be nice if we could ALWAYS go to rules for clarification. There are quite a few calls that could be backed by the rulebook that are never made. In this case though I must agree with you that there is no rules justification to make a call on this play. Rulebook Page 70 in Points of Imphasis states - "As long as the defender abtains legal guarding position while on the court and dontinues to have inbounds STATUS...
This play doesn't refer directly to the play mentioned either but if a defensive player only need have inbound STATUS the same is true of an offensive player, right?
I'm glad I let it go!