NCAA vs. Conference Officials

[Almost Always Right]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Maybe we would be in favor of it; but the guys working those schedules sure wouldn't be.

You probably speak the truth. But if they worked every other day, they would have a little more spring in their step come February and March. Catch-22
AAR

[112448]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Wouldn't it just be easier to get all the Conference Commissioners/Assigners on the same page nationally...instead of letting Assigner X from Conference Big-time tell his officials to call the game the way he/she wants it called, while Assigner Y from Conference TV Contract gets to decide to have games called differently - why not let the NCAA have some "teeth" in enforcing things at that level - rather than just the memo's Hank Nichols sends out...

Rocky - at the Division I level on the women's side, we are much closer to the national consistency of which you speak. It's a matter of ego's as I see it. I.e., "I'm not letting somebody in Indy tell me how to run my damn leagues." v. "Let's all get on the same page so we can have ONE set of officiating guidelines nationally."

It's not there yet, but it's a heck of a lot closer to being achieved on the women's side.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by 112448


Rocky - at the Division I level on the women's side, we are much closer to the national consistency of which you speak. It's a matter of ego's as I see it. I.e., "I'm not letting somebody in Indy tell me how to run my damn leagues." v. "Let's all get on the same page so we can have ONE set of officiating guidelines nationally."

It's not there yet, but it's a heck of a lot closer to being achieved on the women's side.

It is closer to that because the same freakin officials work all the games. The same officials go to the final four all the time. There are officials that have double digit appearances at working the championship alone. Of course it is going to seem consistent when you see the very same officials on the high profile games. There are more politics on the Women's side than anything you will ever see on the Men's game.

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by cmathews

I agree with Chuck whole heartedly. Something else to consider, we all talk about integrity and how important it is to all of us. If we want the D1 guys to only work 2 games a week so that we can get there, then when we would get there want to change it back, well that to me is an integrity issue. If we want to look honestly at the proposal, we have to look at it from the D1 guys perspective....

It's not an integrity issue, it's a greed and ego issue.

Good grief, don't you think I was joking about wanting it changed back to the current way if I ever get there?

[112448]

Originally posted by JRutledge

It is closer to that because the same freakin officials work all the games. The same officials go to the final four all the time. There are officials that have double digit appearances at working the championship alone. Of course it is going to seem consistent when you see the very same officials on the high profile games. There are more politics on the Women's side than anything you will ever see on the Men's game.

Peace

Wow. It's been over a year since I've posted anything and JRut is still able to piss in my bowl of cereal without any qualms.

JRut - your response is truly that of someone with a chip on the old shoulder.

Maybe those same people work the final four because they do the best job of calling the game the way that Marcy and the NCAA wants it called.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by JRutledge

It is closer to that because the same freakin officials work all the games. The same officials go to the final four all the time. There are officials that have double digit appearances at working the championship alone. Of course it is going to seem consistent when you see the very same officials on the high profile games. There are more politics on the Women's side than anything you will ever see on the Men's game.

Peace

More politics on the Women's side??? Wow...interesting point of view, but I would have to say that you don't have a clue...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by 112448


Wow. It's been over a year since I've posted anything and JRut is still able to piss in my bowl of cereal without any qualms.

JRut - your response is truly that of someone with a chip on the old shoulder.

Maybe those same people work the final four because they do the best job of calling the game the way that Marcy and the NCAA wants it called.

Why every time someone says something that another poster does not like they have to have a chip on their shoulder? Seriously, why is that?

First of all I do not work any Women's basketball. I used to but I had to make a choice and I decided to only work Men's basketball. It was made clear I could not do both. Having said that this is not my words, this comes from the officials that work at that level. I know officials that cannot smell certain games because a very small group is always on those games. On the Men's side you can see many officials on the big games. Every year on the Men's side I see a completely different group of Final Four officials. I see the same names working the Women's Final Four almost every year. Even those that have not worked that level for years can step in and work the Championship game.

This is an observation just like you are making. I have that right to make that observation. I have seen officials that are not respected at the HS and lower level college ranks, all of a sudden get hired at the D1 level. Then the next year get fired because they could not cut the mustard. And all of this with an officials that has not worked 5 years total as an officials.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rockyroad


More politics on the Women's side??? Wow...interesting point of view, but I would have to say that you don't have a clue...

Name one official on the Men's side that has less than 5 years total experience and is working D1 ball. I can think of about 3 that happen to on the Women's side. Not 5 years of HS varsity experience, 5 years of total basketball officiating experience.

Give me one name and I will accept your point of view.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Name one official on the Men's side that has less than 5 years total experience and is working D1 ball. I can think of about 3 that happen to on the Women's side. Not 5 years of HS varsity experience, 5 years of total basketball officiating experience.

Give me one name and I will accept your point of view.

Peace

Is it political or is it the gender equivalent of affirmative action?

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


Is it political or is it the gender equivalent of affirmative action?

Z

Affirmative action is based on race and gender and ethnicity. The biggest benefactor of Affirmative Action policies in this country are white women. If you do not believe me look it up. Based on your question I am not sure you understand what Affirmative Action really is. Having said that, I was not just talking about just women who work games on the D1 Basketball on the Women's side in this post. The same officials seemed to work them regardless of what their gender is. I will say that there are Women that get opportunities that the men never do with the same level of experience. That does not bother me one bit, but I do not see this surge of Black male officials getting D1 opportunities on the Men's side the way women get those opportunities on the Women's side. Not unless they work the SWAC or MEAC.

Peace

[112448]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Name one official on the Men's side that has less than 5 years total experience and is working D1 ball. I can think of about 3 that happen to on the Women's side. Not 5 years of HS varsity experience, 5 years of total basketball officiating experience.

Give me one name and I will accept your point of view.

Peace

Duke Edsall was hired to work in the ACC in the early 1980's. At the time he had less the 3 years experience. He worked his first final four in 2002.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by 112448

Duke Edsall was hired to work in the ACC in the early 1980's. At the time he had less the 3 years experience. He worked his first final four in 2002.

That was 25 years ago. Name someone today or in the last 5 years. Teddy Valentine got hired at the D1 level without working a single HS varsity game. But that was over 20 years ago when that happens. Teddy has worked 2 Final Four games if I am not mistaken. Let us talk about today. I can name 3 officials in the past 5 years that were hired with less than 6 years of experience on the Women's side. Not only did that raise eyebrows when that happen, but these same officials did not work an extensive lower level college schedule when they were hired.

I realize this is an emotional issue (not sure why when we rip Men's officials here all the time for their mechanics and rules knowledge), but let us deal with facts. Stop trying to defend something that you just want to get upset over.

Peace

[zebraman]

The men's game has been around a lot longer than the woman's game has. So maybe the game's "maturity" has more to do with this than politics since you say that what is happening in today's women's game also happened in the men's game 25 years ago.

Not wanting to get into a long-winded discussion about affirmative action, but what I see is that a big effort is made to promote women's officials in the women's college game. I think it's good for the game and it doesn't bother me a bit. I do see some female officials get in over their heads sometimes when they are promoted too quickly but that works itself out. If you are good enough, you will get promoted regardless of your gender.

I know that when I go to state for a girls HS tournament, I will have to be considerably better than any female officials that are there in order to work the final. That just makes it that much more satisfying when I do.

Z

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Name one official on the Men's side that has less than 5 years total experience and is working D1 ball. I can think of about 3 that happen to on the Women's side. Not 5 years of HS varsity experience, 5 years of total basketball officiating experience.

Give me one name and I will accept your point of view.

Peace

Can't... can't name any of those on the Women's side either (don't follow their bio's as well as you do I guess) but what does that have to do with politics? Are you seriously saying that when I sit down on a weekend to watch games and see the same names and faces week in and week out - on the Men's side, now - that that is only because they are good, but if I see the same faces on the Women's games, that's because of politics???

[rainmaker]

I'd like to go back to the issue of people working too many games. I can see both sides of the issue. I know that my first year of varsity hs, I only had about one or two games a week, and taht was enough! emotionally and mentally, I was maxxed out. But the next year, there were a couple of weeks when I had three games, and sometimes varsity two nights in a row, and it wasn't as bad. I had improved to the point that I could handle it. I'm assuming that the D1 folks that are working 6 games a week have worked enough that they can cope with the stress, and don't get burned out. I expect the assignors don't think they're overworked. THey sure don't HAVE to give that many games to one person!

On the other hand, I can't imagine how it could be humanly possible to be intense enough, and confident enough, and physically fit enough to keep up that kind of schedule for 5 months. Would there be a way to back some of the heavy hitters off a little and give someone else a chance to take some of those games? Would it cut down on errors and bad calls? How could those questions be answered?