NCAA vs. Conference Officials

[drothamel]

Just to divert us back to the original discussion for a second. . .I think that having NCAA officials as opposed to conference officials could be done. It doesn't seem to me that it would be much different than the situation now with regard to travel etc. The officials working the big D1 conferences come from all over the country and travel all over as well. You would still have that geographic component with regard to assignments. It seems that one big hurdle would be compensation. My understanding is that every conference pays differently. Would the NCAA have to institute some kind of pay scale that ranks the conferneces? That would seem to ruffle some feathers even if you paid everyone the same thing across the board in D1. Also, would it just be done for D1, or for every division? Doing that would be a MAJOR undertaking. I have also heard that one concern is whether or not to employ the officials or allow them to continue to be independent contractors. Just some thoughts, but I do think that having NCAA officials does bear some consideration

[tomegun]

I agree with Rainmaker that as you gain experience you can handle more games during the week. However, the facts are there are many officials that are big time officials but they are safe. Sometimes what is unpopular call is the correct call. How many off-ball calls have we really seen in the tournament or throughout the year for that matter? There are also officials who look like bafoons on the court jumping around. That wouldn't be so bad except it has been analyzed and proven by someone with a ton of experience that thes officials put themselves in bad positions. Love it or hate it the NBA officials are much more consistent than the NCAA officials while still maintaining their character (Joe Crawford). The college game is so regionalized that it hurts some teams come March.

I do not agree with JRut about who you see on the games on the men's side. My TV shows me the same guys working. I could probably tell you 3 or 4 officials right now that will be in the final four. Also, I don't know about the women's game but I do know that politics on the East coast and West coast is a major player on the men's side.

**on a side note - I'm in Vegas for the Easter Classic and I had Jordan's son last night. MJ was there and some things were pretty funny. On more than one occasion I heard "I know Michael is here but you don't have to cheat for his team" from the stands. Little did this lady know that I could give two hoots about that. Now, if Magic was there I would have been like a 5-year old trying to get autographs, pictures and a job!

[JRutledge]

All I am saying is that things are not wonderful on the Women's side. There is politics on the Women's side just like the Men's side. I am not talking about just with who gets hired at that level, but you cannot tell me that the same officials have to work the Final Four every single year. When I read Referee Magazine when and they interview an officials and you see their resume, you would think no other officials exist on the Women's side. There are some very good Men's officials that we see on TV that only have one or two total Final Four appearance in 30 years of working. While someone on the Women's side has over 10 Final Four appearances with barely 20 years of experience. Something does not sound right if that is the case.

Now that is a personal opinion and I have the right to have that opinion. If those that work Women's basketball have no problem with that, then so be it. It is your right to not have the problem. I just would like to work a level where at some point I might be able to get that opportunity to work the Final Four, then if I am not the right person I will see other officials work more than 10 chances over hundreds of officials that deserve the right opportunity. In my state they basically put a cap on 3 State Final opportunities. There are several officials that get those opportunities as a result. Or maybe the officials that get the opportunities are the best and the overall quality is lacking in the mind of the NCAA. Either way that does not shed a good light on Women's NCAA Assignments. It is either quality or politics from what I see.

Peace

[brianp134]

Tomegun, I was wondering where you were at. I haven't heard from you for a while. Have a great time in Vegas and I will talk to you once you return. Gotta tell you what happened at the meeting last night

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by JRutledge
There is politics on the Women's side just like the Men's side.
Peace

Oh, ok...now it is the same. Your earlier post said that there was MORE politics on the Women's side, but now they're just like each other...now I get it!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by tomegun
I do not agree with JRut about who you see on the games on the men's side. My TV shows me the same guys working. I could probably tell you 3 or 4 officials right now that will be in the final four. Also, I don't know about the women's game but I do know that politics on the East coast and West coast is a major player on the men's side.

I see the same officials all the time as well. But they are not working the Final Four every year. The officials in the Big Ten Tournament when I have attended, I have only seen two of them actually reach the Final Four in the past 6 years I have attended the Big Ten Tournament. I know two of those officials went several years between trips. I have watched the UConn-Tennessee Women's game and it seems like two of those officials automatically are in the Women's Final Four. One of them I have met personally and she is an exceptional official, but do not tell me she is the only official capable to go to the Final Four several years in a row. Maybe she is, but do not convince me, convince those that work those games (regardless of gender) that point that fact out. They can spread the wealth a little canÂ’t they? I am sure Dee Kanter is a great official, but why was she in the WomenÂ’s Championship game the first year she was back after being fired from the NBA? Dee already had worked multiple Final Four games. Now that did not tick me off, I am not an official that worked a Regional Final the year before.

We talk all the time about appearances and perceptions. That just does not sound right to me.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Oh, ok...now it is the same. Your earlier post said that there was MORE politics on the Women's side, but now they're just like each other...now I get it!

Rocky,

There are politics on both sides (that was the point of the statement above). From my observations is more on the Women's side because you do not see a distribution of assignments like you do on the Men's side. You can try to split my words to mean things you want them to, I stand by what I said. You do not have to agree.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Name one official on the Men's side that has less than 5 years total experience and is working D1 ball. I can think of about 3 that happen to on the Women's side. Not 5 years of HS varsity experience, 5 years of total basketball officiating experience.

Give me one name and I will accept your point of view.

Peace

Joe DeRosa officiated for three years before being picked up D1.

He worked 3 more years before being picked up by the NBA.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Rocky,

There are politics on both sides (that was the point of the statement above). From my observations is more on the Women's side because you do not see a distribution of assignments like you do on the Men's side. You can try to split my words to mean things you want them to, I stand by what I said. You do not have to agree.

Peace

Obviously I don't agree...and I didn't split any of your words - you contradicted yourself, again...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rockyroad


Obviously I don't agree...and I didn't split any of your words - you contradicted yourself, again...

Both sides have politics. Name one thing in life that does not have some politics involved? Education system, different occupations and government interactions all have some form of a political structure in place. Depending on what we are talking about, some has a higher degree of politics. So if I say the education systems and government has politics, does that mean they have the exact same level of political influences? I guess to you that would mean both have the exact same political structure or influence if I used them both as in example in the same sentence. But then again, you are the one that feels you need to defend a side of basketball that clearly most here could give a damn about. This is the most conversation about Women's basketball and the officials in literal months. When someone even tries to force conversation about Women's basketball, no one replies.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Almost Always Right

You probably speak the truth. But if they worked every other day, they would have a little more spring in their step come February and March. Catch-22
AAR

I think another isue is the coaches.

Even at the HS varsity level most coaches don't like seeing a fresh face working their games. Do you think coaches who do this for a living want to have at least 1 unkown on each of their games? The big time officials work heavy schedules because they're in demand by the coaches & assignors.

[PS2Man]

Why are those that work Women's basketball so sensitive to issues related to the officiating side of the game? If the game is so great why do you feel you have to defend it all the time?

I have to agree with Dan's point. You are not going to see brand new officials on every game because the coaches at that level have their jobs at stake. Not the same thing at the HS and Junior High levels. Coaches at the NCAA level might want it in theory at first. Then when the games are called they would question every call made by these newer officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by PS2Man
Why are those that work Women's basketball so sensitive to issues related to the officiating side of the game? If the game is so great why do you feel you have to defend it all the time?

The rules are different. The mechanics are different. The assignors are totally different. Many of the officials can work a full D1 schedule of Women's basketball and can work an entire season of WNBA games, but the politics are exactly the same?

Just in HS basketball in my state we have one assignor for Girl's basketball playoffs and another assignor for the Boy's basketball playoffs. Many of the assignors for conferences are not the same, neither are the issues that relate to girl's and boy's basketball. I guess Rocky probably believes that everything is the same because it is PC to say so. So in rocky's mind the same officials must work both across the board and who officiates those games are have the exact same issue. I guess some of us will never understand this PC way of thinking. I know I will not.

Peace

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by JRutledge


The rules are different. The mechanics are different. The assignors are totally different. Many of the officials can work a full D1 schedule of Women's basketball and can work an entire season of WNBA games, but the politics are exactly the same?

That is really my point. I do not understand how all these things can be completely different but when you say anything negative about Women's basketball people get livid. I work college Men's basketball for assignors that assign both NCAA Men's and Women's basketball and they make it very clear their expectations are different.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by PS2Man

That is really my point. I do not understand how all these things can be completely different but when you say anything negative about Women's basketball people get livid. I work college Men's basketball for assignors that assign both NCAA Men's and Women's basketball and they make it very clear their expectations are different.

Who's livid? Who said anything negative aboue women's basketball? I don't understand your post.