I wonder if the jumper tapped backwards or if both jumpers were set up facing the wrong direction. The orig post does not define but it doesn't make sense if the tap went backwards and the kid shot a layup. ??

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know
 

That's what I get for reading too quickly. I saw "layup" and assumed backboard. Oops.
I was assuming, also, that everyone was confused. Otherwise, I'm calling the double dribble when he dribbles again.

Here's a twist.

Same situation.
finger roll after dribbling. Ball never touches both hands. Ball hits iron and bounces to floor, where A2 decides to just continue dribbling rather than gathering it in.
I'm thinking this is a carry from the finger roll, but not illegal until he continues the dribble. Right?

What about the lovely idea of calling a travel? It wasn't stated and since this kid couldn't make a lay-up in the first place this isn't a given, but he likely jumped (picking up the pivot foot involved) and then gathered the ball in again. He did all of this intentionally, so the only provision that would make this legal is calling it a fumble and that is ruled out because he did it on purpose. So to determine a course of action what situation is this similar to? I would relate this throwing the ball in the air and running 5 or 6 steps to catch it.

In either case the dribble ended when the player finger-rolled the ball the released the ball. To finger-roll the palms will be facing up and the ball comes to rest therefore dribble has ended. If he is the first to touch the ball after losing possession of the ball after the dribble ended then he is guilty of the violation. whistle and give the ball to the opposing team.

Addendum to previous reply:

My current rule book are in my car but in the 2203-04 Case book look at 9.5 Situation on page 66.

The ruling there is that after the dribble ended if A1 throws the ball against an opponent backboard (or floor, or official for that matter, ie anything other than another player)this constitutes another dribble if A1 is first to touch. See Rule 4-15-2; Fundamental 19.

Call foul on B!
No free throws since A1 not in act of shooting.
Give A throwing at spot nearest the foul.

Before giving A the ball for a throw-in I will tell thrower to hold the designated spot and remind both teams which direction they are going on offense.

Double dribble violation.

His first dribble ends during the lay-up. (ball come to a rest at his hand), so he can not start another dribble with 3 exceptions. touching the wrong ring is not one of them.


HS 9-5-1 "A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 . . . A try for field goal.
ART. 2 . . . A bat by an opponent.
ART. 3 . . . A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player."

But then what if he catches his "rebound" without more dribble?

I believe it is still a violation, but not sure what the right term is for this. still "double dribble"? What is the official term of intentional "self-pass" without ball hittig the floor?

Thanks.

I think you could rightfully call a travel on this as soon as he touches the ball again.

To both you and BoomerSooner,
This is NOT a travel. In order to travel the player MUST be holding the ball (with one goofy exception, 4.43.5 SitB last sentence).

RULE 4 - SECTION 43 TRAVELING
Traveling (running with the ball) is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

As Bob Jenkins pointed out earlier in this thread, the correct call here is an illegal dribble violation. It is that same signal as a double dribble, but a slightly different concept. See casebook play 4.15.4 Sit D that I cited earlier for the explanation.

The "right term" doesn't matter to anyone except overly-anal officials. Blow the whistle, flail the arms as you like, point the other way and get the game going.

Explain it to the coach in five words or fewer as you run by.

You guys make a simple play entirely too complicated.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Mar 24th, 2005 at 08:44 AM]

When a player lifts his pivot foot, he is limited to what he can do. I will assume he jumped for the layup, lifting his pivot foot. Once he does that, he must either shoot, pass, or call timeout. If he starts a dribble, it's a travel. If he passes and retrieves his own pass, it's a travel. So, if it hits the backboard, he has started a dribble and it will be a travel when he touches it again. If it just hits the rim, it's a travel as soon as two things have happened: his pivot foot has returned, and he has touched the ball again.

I'm feeling overly anal this morning. :)

Why? Where's the disadvantage? He's not shooting, so there's no disadvantage there. All he can do if he touches the ball again is violate, so you're not putting him at a disadvantage there.

The only person being disadvantaged is B1, as he is trying to prevent A1 from giving his team two points.

Adam,
Since you wish to be precise, I'll tell you that you have brought up a great point about travelling also including starting a dribble after lifting the pivot foot.

However, the play in question (hit the opponent's ring, not the backboard, and catch the ball WITHOUT it hitting the floor) is still an illegal dribble and not a travel because the ball never hit the floor.
Therefore, the player never dribbled, so you can't call him for travelling due to starting a dribble after lifting his pivot. Case play 4.15.4 Sit D is still the best ruling.

Also, if the player never jumps, but "shoots" at the wrong goal from the floor, and then runs over and catches the ball off the ring, you can't make that case for travelling.

Unless the ball hits the floor, I believe that illegal dribble is the only correct call.