fight

[mikesears]

How do you determine who the home team fans are and who the
visitor fans are? BTW, although you say it's not unusual
for this type of announcement to be made, I have never
seen it done nor heard of it done.

I've seen announcements made several times and it happened in a televised college game a number of years ago. Coach got on the PA system and said something like, "Please do not throw things onto the floor or boo the referees, no matter how terrible the calls are." Earned himself a technical foul. -- I don't remember the exact words but I think it was an Oklahoma or OK State coach on in one of their games.

[KDM]

This one is interesting! First, the fan came out of the 'stands' and starts fighting with one of the players. The officials call a 'flagrant technical' against the player that was fighting and the fan is ejected. I don't claim to have an absolute answer since the information about the situation is somewhat limited. But for conversation sake, wouldn't the player be within reason should someone 'out of the stands' attackes him to make some effort to defend himself? Rule 10 is clear that a player charged with fighting should be disqualified. However, the definition of fighting in Rule 4 speaks specifically in relationship to the act (of fighting) being directed at an opponent! I assume, for arguments sake, that an opponent would be a player or team personel from the opposing team and not a spectator. The fighting definition also says that it is 'not limited' necessarily to the opponents. A different can of worms are opened in my opinion, if a fan can dictate the participation of a player of the opposing team. Not to say that other schools or students would attempt to abuse this situation, but I think most of you can see where it could go. For all I know, the player charged with fighting may have done more than 'attempting to protect himself'. But here's what the officials could have had. First, no technical if the player was defending himself. The fan that came out of the stands to fight, should have been arrested on the spot for assault. Here in Tennessee, we have specific laws for such situations in a organized sporting event. Since additional kids came out of the stands and on to the floor, an administrative technical to the home team. Any and all fans that came onto the floor should have been removed from the gym. The is a classic example of an administration 'not taking care of business'! I hope that no lawyers were in attendance, but then again, maybe in this situation, it might be good. I only wonder, with this type of incident against a player, how long will it be before an official is attacked in a similar manner???

[Tim Roden]

To add to the discussion, the game came on TV again last night and from what I saw watching it the second time. The student on the front row said something and the player came after him and the fight was on the floor by the time the camera got there. Most of the others on the floor were teachers who were trying to stop the fight. But even the anouncers who were not very knowledgible on rules mention that a foul could be accessed against the home team.

To forfet the game at this point would not be an option. The game was well in hand by the home team. It was a playoff game so if the home team had to forfet, it would be a travisty for the players. Espcially since there was a 30+ point lead and the starters were all on the bench when the incident occurred. We were in the final minutes. All the players at this point were JVers and even the article mentioned that the visitors were doing everything they could to get players on the home team ejected. One of the first adults to try to calm the student section down was an assistant coach. The head coach was over there shortly thereafter and explained to the kids exactly what has been suggested be announced on the P.A. Like I said early the game finished without further incident. One incident like this should not result in forfet. Two incidents could be.

[Edited by Tim Roden on Mar 6th, 2001 at 11:32 AM]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I don't have any problem backing it up. Again, I'm not advocating doing it but the rules give the referee the authority to do so if necessary.

Tony, I hear you saying that you don't advocate doing this
so I guess we are discussing theory. So in theory, you
actually do have a problem backing this up because
there's no way you can tell a home fan from a visitor
fan. You would be guessing, and to forfeit a game based
on a guess is not right by any stretch of the imagination.

As for coaches, game admin, security, etc getting on the PA
and threatening a forfeit, this might work but they
certainly have no authority to do this. And I'm surely not
going to declare a forfeit when their plan backfires.

[BktBallRef]

The type of fan who would run onto the court and start a fight wouldn't be hurt to spot or know who he's pulling for. He's the same idiot that's me yelling at me all night every time his team gets called for a foul.

People aren't smart enough to say, "Hey, let's pretend to be fans for the other team, start a fight and get our team a forfeited win!".

Even Yaws agrees with me on that one.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

...

Even Yaws agrees with me on that one.

Oh yeah, right, you've certainly brought in the
heavyweights!

Anyway I guess we're just not going to budge on this one.
I would never threaten a forfeit for fan behavior, you
might.

[physicsref]

We had the a similar situation in our area (Corvallis/Albany Oregon) this year. During a game, some chest-bumping and jawing started between two players. A large group of students poured out of the stands and got into it with the visiting player. As a good portion of the student section was either on the floor on on the sidelines and out of the stands, the officials ejected the entire student section. Game management was not pleased at first, but when given the option of doing so or forfeiting, did their job. While this may seem draconian to some, I feel that the officials should do whatever necessary to ensure the safety of all participants.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I would never threaten a forfeit for fan behavior, you
might.

I don't believe I'll ever get to that point. But if I do, it will be because there is no other alternative.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Oh yeah, right, you've certainly brought in the
heavyweights!

Anyway I guess we're just not going to budge on this one.
I would never threaten a forfeit for fan behavior, you
might.

Who is Yaw? Do I know this person.

[mikesears]

Now that's funny. Sometimes it can be difficult to remember who posts to which forums!