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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 09, 2005, 11:05pm
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With about 17 seconds remaining in the Georgetown-Seton Hall game and Georgetown leading by 2, the Hoyas had a throw-in following a made FT by Seton Hall.

One Georgetown player picked up the ball and moved to his right, while another stepped OOB under the basket and his teammate threw the ball to him. The Seton Hall player who was defending the second Georgetown player followed him OOB. He clearly stepped well over the line with his entire foot. The inbounder now threw an errant pass into the Seton Hall bench for a turnover.

The defender breaking the plane and being OOB probably didn't have any effect on the pass, but I was curious how many here would call the warning for delay anyway.

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Old Wed Mar 09, 2005, 11:11pm
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In college there is no official "warning" like there is in HS. You could call a defensive violation for being across the line, but if it didn't interfere with the play, I got nada.
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Old Wed Mar 09, 2005, 11:13pm
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NFHS:

Have I called this before, yes.

Would I call it if there was 17 seconds left in the game and the action of breaking the plane didn't create a disadvantage to the thower. No.

No harm, no foul.
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Old Wed Mar 09, 2005, 11:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
In college there is no official "warning" like there is in HS. You could call a defensive violation for being across the line, but if it didn't interfere with the play, I got nada.
Chuck,
I was not aware that there are no official warnings in NCAA play.

I did some checking in the book and found this:

A.R. 8. After a field goal by B1 with two minutes left to play: (a) B2 reaches through the end-line plane and slaps the ball from the hands of A1 or touches the ball as it is
passed along the end line after the score; or (b) after a warning, B2 prevents the ball from being promptly put in play by slapping the ball away. RULING: In (a) and (b), an indirect technical foul shall be charged to B2 for delaying the game. When A1, in making the throw-in, reaches through the end-line plane into the playing court and B1 slaps the ball from the hands of A1, without B1 breaking the plane above the end line, B1 has not committed a violation because the ball is in play once it crosses the end line.

So it appears that there must be some kind of warning. How exactly are these warnings handled?

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Old Wed Mar 09, 2005, 11:46pm
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I also found this:

Section 3. Indirect Technical Fouls
The following shall result in an indirect technical foul to be charged to a team (coach), player or, in the case of a substitution, to that individual.
Art. 1. Delay of game. A team shall not delay the game. Delay of the game shall include, when the game clock is not running:
a. Consuming a full minute by not being ready when it is time to start either half or any extra period;
b. Failure to supply scorers with data per Rule 3-3;
c. Repeatedly delaying the game by preventing the ball from being promptly put in play, such as delaying the administration of a throw-in or free throw by engaging in a team huddle any place on the playing court.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter.
d. Failing to remove chairs/stools immediately after the warning signal of any timeout and to complete cleanup before the final warning signal alerts all personnel that play is going to resume.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter.

So it appears to me that there are TWO specific warnings in NCAA play as opposed to the three that can be given under NFHS rules.
Again, this is news to me, so please help me understand this better, if I don't have it exactly right.
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Old Wed Mar 09, 2005, 11:53pm
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Question

What are the three warnings for NFHS?

I know:
1) Warning for delay by stepping through throw-in boudary line...

What else?
Joe
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Old Wed Mar 09, 2005, 11:59pm
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Another is interfering with the ball following a made basket.

I believe the third is huddling at the free throw line, but I could be wrong here.
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Old Thu Mar 10, 2005, 12:05am
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Here's the NFHS rule:

RULE 4 - SECTION 46 WARNING FOR DELAY
A warning to a team for delay is an administrative procedure by an official which is recorded in the scorebook by the scorer and reported to the coach:
ART. 1 . . . For throw-in plane violations, as in 9-2-11.
ART. 2 . . . For huddle by either team and contact with the free thrower, as in 10-1-5c.
ART. 3 . . . For interfering with the ball following a goal as in 10-1-5d.
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Old Thu Mar 10, 2005, 08:21am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref

c. Repeatedly delaying the game by preventing the ball from being promptly put in play, such as delaying the administration of a throw-in or free throw by engaging in a team huddle any place on the playing court.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter.
d. Failing to remove chairs/stools immediately after the warning signal of any timeout and to complete cleanup before the final warning signal alerts all personnel that play is going to resume.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter.

So it appears to me that there are TWO specific warnings in NCAA play as opposed to the three that can be given under NFHS rules.
Again, this is news to me, so please help me understand this better, if I don't have it exactly right.
Note that the delay warning is given for repeatedly delaying, not just for a single case.

BTW I wouldn't call these an *official* warning, with an explicite procedure as defined in the fed book. It's more like an *official's* warning, IOO something informally done. In any event I don't see that it's done very often.

In the original play apparently the defender coming over the line didn't change the play so I would have let it go.
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Old Thu Mar 10, 2005, 09:54am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
In college there is no official "warning" like there is in HS. You could call a defensive violation for being across the line, but if it didn't interfere with the play, I got nada.
Chuck,
I was not aware that there are no official warnings in NCAA play.

I'm sure that Chuck meant that *in this situation* (reaching / going over the inbounds line) there's no official warning.

In NCAA, the official has three choices -- ignore it, warn (more of a game management device than anything formal; doesn't *require* that the next event be a T), call a T.

99% of the time it's option 1, .5% option 2, .5% option 3.

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Old Thu Mar 10, 2005, 09:57am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
BTW I wouldn't call these an *official* warning, with an explicite procedure as defined in the fed book. It's more like an *official's* warning,
This was the point I was trying to make. The warning, if given, is NOT reported to the table and recorded in the book. If you stop play and tell him to "leave the ball alone", that's the warning.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2005, 04:23am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
BTW I wouldn't call these an *official* warning, with an explicite procedure as defined in the fed book. It's more like an *official's* warning,
This was the point I was trying to make. The warning, if given, is NOT reported to the table and recorded in the book. If you stop play and tell him to "leave the ball alone", that's the warning.
Hey, guys, would you care to explain this then? I came across this in the NCAA book while checking 2-10 for another thread.

BR-44 RULE 2-8/OFFICIALS AND THEIR DUTIES
Art. 11. Report a warning for delay to the official scorer and coaches, such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being promptly put into play (free throw or throw-in) by any team huddle;
b. Interfering with the ball after a score;
c. Failure to have court ready to play after a timeout;
d. Failure to keep game jersey tucked in.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2005, 05:20am
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Nevada, it seems like you found something specific in the rule book. Let everything else go.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2005, 05:38am
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I was not trying to be a twit. Although, rereading my post I can see how it could be taken that way.

I just want to learn from some of these guys who work at the NCAA level what the interp of that section in the rules is. I only want to be sure that I have it right.

I would hate to get my shot and embarrass myself.

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Old Mon Mar 21, 2005, 08:03am
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I don't think your intention was to be a twit. I think your original situation is one where there isn't an anything to report to the scorer. There were some blanket statements made pertaining to the NCAA rules that were not accurate. I don't mean any disrespect to Chuck, Bob or Dan but according to the rules there are warnings for delay that are reported to the table. Chuck's post might have only dealt with the particular situation you posted about but I will not and cannot say for certainty what Chuck meant.
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