John Chaney:

[Dan_ref]

Codewords...lessee what this codeword stuff is all about:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ionary&va=thug

Main Entry: thug
Pronunciation: 'th&g
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi thag, literally, thief
: a brutal ruffian or assassin : syn GANGSTER, KILLER

Hindi...what's that about...

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/hindiint.html

Hindi is the language spoken by roughly 180 million people in India today, it is a direct descendant of Sanskrit through Prakrit and Apabhramsha and became stable in it's own right in the 10th century. It is called Urdu in Pakistan, where roughly 41 million people speak it. About 300 million people speak it as a second language. This adds up to well over half a billion humans speaking Hindi, primarily in the Indian subcontinent.

I suppose one might be led to believe John Cheney is of Indian or Pakistani descent by my use of the code word "thug". I apologize to any of my Indian or Pakistani friends out there that might have taken offense. But my opinion stands, he's a thug.

[PS2Man]

You can be a smart *** all you want to be about this Dan but I agree that your comments were out of line. Just because you did not come out and use very specific language that signifies someone as racist or insensitive does not make them right or not offensive. Just because you did not use a specific racial slur does not make your comments right or justified. I have seen people get offended over a lot less and that is OK. I guess when it comes to race or issues of race we still have not gotten around what is acceptable and what is very inappropriate. The "N" word is not the only word that offends people of color.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by PS2Man
You can be a smart *** all you want to be about this Dan but I agree that your comments were out of line. Just because you did not come out and use very specific language that signifies someone as racist or insensitive does not make them right or not offensive. Just because you did not use a specific racial slur does not make your comments right or justified. I have seen people get offended over a lot less and that is OK. I guess when it comes to race or issues of race we still have not gotten around what is acceptable and what is very inappropriate. The "N" word is not the only word that offends people of color.

PS2Man, if you post the "codewords" that push your buttons I'll try & avoid them. But don't expect me to guess what they are, and don't hold me responsible if I stumble into one of them every now & then. OK?

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


PS2Man, if you post the "codewords" that push your buttons I'll try & avoid them. But don't expect me to guess what they are, and don't hold me responsible if I stumble into one of them every now & then. OK?

I never said anything about "code words." That was someone else. I just stated that your comments could be seen as insensitive or offensive by the way you characterized an African-American person. Especially if that very same language is not used to characterize a Caucasian coach that does similar or has similar character. I cannot tell you what they are if you are not familiar with people that are not white and what might offend them. I do know that if you are ever around a lot of people in your personal life that are do not look like you. I think you not trying to offend people come from what is deep inside. I cannot tell you what words to use when you have no core in you sole to know what could be seen as upsetting to people.

[Adam]

The issue of whether "thug" is a racist term, or if it is used selectively to refer to African Americans of questionable ethics, could have been raised without the subtle accusation that came with it.
And yes, the subtle accusation is there.
Frankly, my list of thugs is rather short. Bill Lambier, Ron Artest, Bob Knight, and now John Chaney. I'm judging only by behavior here.
But, as Dan said. I can't be expected to know which words push which buttons if we haven't been told. This is just rediculous.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by PS2Man

I never said anything about "code words." That was someone else. I just stated that your comments could be seen as insensitive or offensive by the way you characterized an African-American person. Especially if that very same language is not used to characterize a Caucasian coach that does similar or has similar character. I cannot tell you what they are if you are not familiar with people that are not white and what might offend them. I do know that if you are ever around a lot of people in your personal life that are do not look like you. I think you not trying to offend people come from what is deep inside. I cannot tell you what words to use when you have no core in you sole to know what could be seen as upsetting to people.

You've got to be kidding. So if you say something about someone that happens to be black and your comment happens to have a negative connotation, then it's racist unless you also include someone white in your comment as well? That is one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time.

[BktBallRef]

Wow, I never realized until I read this thread that the word "thug" is a racial slur. I guess is thug is a racial slur, so is the word "bully" since they mean the same thing.

Here's a list of men who are bullies and thugs, IMHO!

John Chaney
Bobby Knight
Bill Laimbeer
Bob Huggins
Ron Artest
Latrell Sprewell

Sorry but I'm just not into political correctness.

BTW, Scottie Pippen was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon while he played for the Bulls, early in his career. He was arrested for DUI while playing for Houston in '99. Not sure what Scottie has to do with this discussion. He certainly doesn't make the list above.

[JRutledge]

No one said anything about the word "thug" being racist or a racist term.

As a matter of fact, I never said the comments were racist. I said the comments were inappropriate considering the double standards of how people talk about when talking about different people.

I remember when someone used the word "retarded" and folks from all over jumped down that person's throat for making a joke. I did not see many talking about sensitivity of those that took offense to that word and their opinion about why that was offensive.

I am not going to stop being who I am because it makes someone uncomfortable. Myself and others took on an association member that kept making comments about all the Black officials that stand and talk after meetings and tried to imply we were "up to something" in a joking way. His comments were not received well by fellow Black officials and we wondered why he did not make those some comments about the many white officials that stood around and talked to each other. Those comments were a double standard, so is the characterization of Chaney being a thug to me is. I think I have that right to voice my opposition like the others that were offended by the "retarded" comments.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by PS2Man

I never said anything about "code words." That was someone else. I just stated that your comments could be seen as insensitive or offensive by the way you characterized an African-American person. Especially if that very same language is not used to characterize a Caucasian coach that does similar or has similar character. I cannot tell you what they are if you are not familiar with people that are not white and what might offend them. I do know that if you are ever around a lot of people in your personal life that are do not look like you. I think you not trying to offend people come from what is deep inside. I cannot tell you what words to use when you have no core in you sole to know what could be seen as upsetting to people.

Sorry, I really can't figure out what you're trying to tell me here. Except that somehow you're offended by something I might have said that you really cannot put your finger on. But it wasn't a codeword. And I think you're trying to insult me, but I'm not sure. :shrug:

I can't do much about any of that.

BTW, go google "hockey thug" and see how many hits you get. I got over 80,000. Last time I checked there weren't many "people of color" in hockey.

edit: check out "nazi thug". 96,000 hits on google.

redneck thug got only 52,000 hits.

Mafia thug got 148,000 hits!

Russian thug: 176,000 hits!!

And a particular russian got 55,000 hits on his own: Stalin thug.

I guess you get the idea...

[Edited by Dan_ref on Mar 1st, 2005 at 02:37 PM]

[Adam]

Rut,
When you wrote, "guess the more things change the more they stay the same," it sure looked like a subtle accusation to me. If that's not how you intended it, fine. That's how it was taken.
And it's not nearly as subtle as any perceived racial double standard when it comes to use of the word "thug." Good grief. When discussing the ethical misgivings of an African American, are we now obligated to find a white man who did the same thing so we can be even handed in our disgust?

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by Smitty


You've got to be kidding. So if you say something about someone that happens to be black and your comment happens to have a negative connotation, then it's racist unless you also include someone white in your comment as well? That is one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time.

That is not what I said. If that is what you want to read out of my words then that is your problem.

[rockyroad]

So after reading everything so far, I have several questions...1)What word other than "thug" would characterize what Chaney did??? 2)Why is no one talking about the kid who actually did the "thugging" - or is that an insensitive word also? 3)Whatinthehell is PS2 trying to say???

I firmly believe that Chaney is getting what he deserves, but am wondering why the Nehemiah kid isn't being punished in some way...every human being has a sense of right and wrong, and that kid should have been known that what he was told to do was wrong..."Coach, I will run thru walls for you, but I can't purposefully go out and hurt someone"...pretty simple answer, seems like to me.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JRutledge
But if you are talking about the self-righteous group of people that talk baseball all the time on this site, think anyone that makes a comment about the war is unpatriotic and hates America and cannot understand what goes on in their state does not apply to everyone else, then please make sure all of those individuals never respond to my posts EVER!!!

Since Rut is the one who brought up baseball, I guess I can say this without being off-topic: ESPN opens its Spring Training coverage with a game between the New York Mets and the brand-new Washington Nationals! Wednesday at 1 pm Eastern time. Come on Spring!!!

Oh, yeah, and I almost never respond to Rut's posts. Can't say "EVER", tho

[Smitty]

Originally posted by PS2Man

That is not what I said. If that is what you want to read out of my words then that is your problem.

I don't believe I have a problem. You said: "Especially if that very same language is not used to characterize a Caucasian coach that does similar or has similar character.". So what did you mean by that, if not that it's only ok to call a black coach a thug if you call a white coach a thug in the same sentence? Educate me....please.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Rut,
When you wrote, "guess the more things change the more they stay the same," it sure looked like a subtle accusation to me. If that's not how you intended it, fine. That's how it was taken.
And it's not nearly as subtle as any perceived racial double standard when it comes to use of the word "thug." Good grief. When discussing the ethical misgivings of an African American, are we now obligated to find a white man who did the same thing so we can be even handed in our disgust?

I was not accusing anyone of anything. I was just making an observation. Making an observation is my right. Just because someone makes an insensitive comment does not make them racist (but for some reason there are people deathly afraid of that label and do everything to get that off their back). But when those comments are seen as acceptable and the double standards are constantly perpetuated, then things have not changed. The attitudes thrown at me just tell me what kind of society we live in and confirm what many of my officiating brethren talk about constantly. If you think your fellow officials of color are not talking about these issues behind your backs and out of your presences, then you are sadly mistaken. I am just not afraid to say it here or anywhere. I guess it comes from what values I hold and say what I feel is wrong. Sorry if that offends you, but I would rather make a comment that is what I am thinking than keep it to myself and accomplish nothing in the process.

Peace