negative partner

[canuckrefguy]

More a personal venting session than anything....

I worked a Boys DH today, two very good teams, with the V game very close, several lead changes, wound up going down to the last shot. Nothing too controversial, no surprises. We were solid. Should have been a blast.

But I was working with a partner who's a bit more experienced than me, not a ton, but higher up nevertheless. I value his experience and feedback.

The trouble is, whenever I work with him, I never feel like I've done very well. He'll always give me a thing or two he feels I can work on - which is great, I'll take all the feedback I can get. But I've come to realize that when I work with him, I feel uneasy because I'm reffing and being evaluated at the same time. Never do I hear about what I've done well, or anything like that.

Same thing tonight - we had a small incident near the end where there was some confusion, nothing huge. That was all we talked about afterwards. Nothing else. I left feeling quite negative, when I should have left with my head held high. I almost said something about it before we parted ways, but chose to leave it.

I know that ultimately we are all responsible for our own happiness and outlook - but just a word to you "senior" partners out there....if you are in a position to be giving feedback to colleagues, you have a responsibility to do it in the most constructive way possible.

There, that's better.

[ditttoo]

Just because he's a good "ref" and/or a good "partner" doesn't automatically qualify him as a "good communicator". Not much help if he's putting you off with his feedback regardless of whether the feedback is accurate or not. His purpose should be to "help" with his comments rather than to simply provide the information and let you decide.

"Senior" officials should help those up and comers - someone helped us. Officiating is not an inate skill where you either have it or you don't - it is taught and learned.

Let this guy know, next time, you want his "help" and also let him know that "those before that have offered only negative comments haven't been of much help and that you need his opinions both good and bad". Might even stress the good part. Then take it for what it's meant to be. If he offers "help", then great, but if you get the same old critique, then it's time to move on to someone who can truly help.

Video tape may help you even more...shows everything, good and bad, and is brutally honest.

[zebraman]

I've never understood why some veterans are so bad at communication and tact. It's amazing to me that they can't remember how it felt when they first started or were working their way up.

I've always found it effective to start my "critique" with two very positive things that I have seen in an official. Even the greenest officials have a couple things they do quite well.

Once the positive things open the doors of communication, then I give them a couple "things to work on." I have always avoided the laundry list of things to work on because if the list gets too big, they won't remember any of it.

Z

[tomegun]

While what you say is probably true in your case I think it is only fair to point out the flip side. There are younger officials who do not want to hear anything and do not make adjustments. This is very frustrating for a veteran official up to a certain point. I deal with this by going out and working the best game I can. I flip the script by working through my parner's deficiencies and it helps me. The time has also came when an assigner has asked me what I thought about one of those officials and/or do I want to work a particular game with them. So, what answer should I give?
I like to commmunicate with someone like they are an adult. Once you lose someone they are gone and I feel like what is said during the course of a game must be positive or it could negatively effect the rest of your game. I like to encourage by telling someone "I know you can do..." They know I have faith in their ability to adjust while knowing that an adjustment needs to be made. I would also suggest using a negative veteran to your advantage by taking what he has to say, using it if you feel so inclined and then working that much harder the next time you are with him. You are here so I'm confident you can make this adjustment.

[dknick78]

I have been there with veteran officials. I know they try to help. I look at it as a learning experience each time. I have attitude now where I try to communicate with the veteran officials to get better at it. For the most part they have been very helpful.

We all are trying to reach that level in officating where we are as good as we can be. It takes time and experience.

You have to strive to get better.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by tomegun
While what you say is probably true in your case I think it is only fair to point out the flip side. There are younger officials who do not want to hear anything and do not make adjustments. This is very frustrating for a veteran official up to a certain point. I deal with this by going out and working the best game I can. I flip the script by working through my parner's deficiencies and it helps me. The time has also came when an assigner has asked me what I thought about one of those officials and/or do I want to work a particular game with them. So, what answer should I give?
I like to commmunicate with someone like they are an adult. Once you lose someone they are gone and I feel like what is said during the course of a game must be positive or it could negatively effect the rest of your game. I like to encourage by telling someone "I know you can do..." They know I have faith in their ability to adjust while knowing that an adjustment needs to be made. I would also suggest using a negative veteran to your advantage by taking what he has to say, using it if you feel so inclined and then working that much harder the next time you are with him. You are here so I'm confident you can make this adjustment.

Interesting, but I am not one of those "younger officials" who can't take feedback. I am not a rookie either, and consider my relationships with partners and comm skills to be one of my assets. But I've come across plenty of officials similar to the type you mentioned.

When an assigner calls and asks ME about a partner, I am honest, but accentuating the positive if at all possible.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy

Interesting, but I am not one of those "younger officials" who can't take feedback. I am not a rookie either, and consider my relationships with partners and comm skills to be one of my assets. But I've come across plenty of officials similar to the type you mentioned.

When an assigner calls and asks ME about a partner, I am honest, but accentuating the positive if at all possible.

Trust me when I tell you I don't hang anyone out to dry. I would rather work on my own game than step on someone's neck to move up. When you are "accentuating the positive" while talking to an assigner make sure you aren't "piling on the poo" because a lot of assigners will ask you a question that they know the answer to just to see what you will say. Might not be the case with your assigner, but it happens. Also, I didn't post anything referring to you personally so I'm sorry if you took it that way. When I prepare for a game, comfort amongst the crew is at the top of my list of priorities to achieve the best chemistry we can. If, along the way, we are able to communicate openly then mission accomplished and nobody leaves feeling like they have been picked on. I have ran into some guys like you described and thankfully I have the confidence in Tom (just thought I would use the 3rd person there ) to work to the best of my abilities. I haven't had a perfect game yet, but I'm trying.

[dblref]

Originally posted by tomegun

Trust me when I tell you I don't hang anyone out to dry. I would rather work on my own game than step on someone's neck to move up. When you are "accentuating the positive" while talking to an assigner make sure you aren't "piling on the poo" because a lot of assigners will ask you a question that they know the answer to just to see what you will say. Might not be the case with your assigner, but it happens. Also, I didn't post anything referring to you personally so I'm sorry if you took it that way. When I prepare for a game, comfort amongst the crew is at the top of my list of priorities to achieve the best chemistry we can. If, along the way, we are able to communicate openly then mission accomplished and nobody leaves feeling like they have been picked on. I have ran into some guys like you described and thankfully I have the confidence in Tom (just thought I would use the 3rd person there ) to work to the best of my abilities. I haven't had a perfect game yet, but I'm trying.

Glad you have confidence in me. My name really is Tom (actually Thomas but I'm called Tom), just as I think you are also.

[tjones1]

Personally I enjoy getting feedback from senior officials. I understand I am not perfect and won't ever be. But if I continue to work on this and that, I'm going to get pretty dang close to being perfect. All the officials that had the game after me or saw me work want you to get better and will shoot straight with you. I'm attending a clinic this year and am looking forward to it so I can get tons and tons of feedback from several different people.

[w_sohl]

Personally, I don't care what I am doing right. Nothing makes me more upset when I get finished with a game than an experienced official just telling me that i did nice job when I ask them if they saw anything that i can work on. I understand if they tell me they really didn't pay attention, that's fine, but don't tell me I did a nice job and you didn't see anything, I want to know what I am doing wrong or what I can do better and beleive me I know there are things.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by w_sohl
Personally, I don't care what I am doing right. Nothing makes me more upset when I get finished with a game than an experienced official just telling me that i did nice job when I ask them if they saw anything that i can work on. I understand if they tell me they really didn't pay attention, that's fine, but don't tell me I did a nice job and you didn't see anything, I want to know what I am doing wrong or what I can do better and beleive me I know there are things.

I'm in this boat, not only will I not do this when I am at that level, I will do my best to try and pay attention, think of stuff and if they ask I'll be prepared.

[canuckrefguy]

Okay, I never said I don't like criticism, or only want partners to tell me "nice job".

Nor do I mind feedback - I crave it, invite it, and make damn sure I put it to good use the next time out.

My problem was that this particular partner seems to dwell on the negative, and does not appreciate the positive.

Don't mean to get defensive, but I'm starting to get the impression that you're misinterpreting my original post.

[tomegun]

The impression I got was that you want to hear something good in order to hear the bad. Once I got to a certain level one of my friends told me I was at a certain level and I'm not going to hear a whole bunch of good.

[LarryS]

What all of you are talking about is teaching style. A good mentor/trainer/teacher will be able to identify the type of "student" receiving the information. Some people can take blunt, dry matter-of-fact verbal evaluations. Some people need to be told something and have it demonstrated/illustrated. Still others have the personal makeup that requires they hear positive reinforcement at sometime during the evaluation. If you are unable to communicate in the way the best helps the other person, you are wasting the time of at least two people.

Telling someone what they are doing well may be a big help in another way. Suppose one of the officials arrived just in time (traffic, held up at work, etc) to change and have a quick pregame. The less experienced partner may have forgot to say "By the way, I have been working on X. I would like some feedback on that after the game if you don't mind". I know that I, more so when I first got started than now, asked the "old guys" to help me prioritize the things gave me to work on...mainly because there were a lot of them.

I personally believe that there is no such thing at "constructive criticism". Criticism, by its nature, is destructive. For someone to improve at anything, they need to hear good and bad feedback. If all they hear is negative, they tend to doubt their ability and future advancement.

Just my two pennies.