Tough Call

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
Yes, rules are rules....and kevin i for one like your post

...With 4.8 seconds left in the game, any official who makes a 10 second free-throw violation call is in my mind doesn't know what there doing...

Those in glass houses should not cast rocks. If a player leaves the "key", "lane", "semi-circle", whatever you want you call it, it is an automatic lane violation, why would you count to 15?

Rules are rules, and while we can give them some leeway, you shouldn't chastise another official for making a call within the rules. I would have given the player a heads up between tosses to speed it up, this would be good preventive officiating, but pressure or not, if they are taking that long you have to call it. By not doing so you penalize the other team.

[Danvrapp]

First and foremost, it's a rule in the rulebook and should be called. Also, what would have the situation have been if the coach on the other side started counting '9....10....11...12!!!' Then you would have really been in a bind. I agree with the call - it took some guts to call it knowing what the results would be - but I'd back that call as a partner.

[Bart Tyson]

It is ok to discuss and have opposing opinions about specific plays on this forum. Sometimes the words we choose are not the best, but were officials, we can take it. If i have a coach start counting, i will not call a violation.

[Dewey1]

I was not there so I cannot say if I would have called it or not. But it is a tough call to make in a tight game. Sort of like calling the first 3 in the key of the game with only seconds remaining. Preventative officating would be best (even if you think it may look like favoritism). I try has hard as possible to let the players decide the game not the officals. As for a coach counting on the sidelines, I would never make the call then. If after he complained I would say that all his counting confused me and I lost my count.

[Peter Devana]

In my mind preventive officiating is the way to go. I would have conveyed my thoughts to the shooter and at the same time reminded the others to not move across the lanes before the shot was released -in that way I would be coaching both squads and not favoring one. This should be done in a very low key manner.

[Hawks Coach]

I disagree with warning the shooter. On what basis? She took 8 seconds on the 1st free throw? With the game on the line, the last thing you should be doing is talking to the shooter about their process at the line. I would actually see that as favoring the other team by putting a distracting thought in the shooter's head that detracts from her focus on this very important free throw. Now she is thinking about your count instead of her shot. She may normally take 8 seconds and intend on doing so again, and that would not be a violation.

I also think you have to have a really egregious violation to dream of calling this with 4.8 seconds left, but I recognize that the rules support making the call and it is within your purview to do so if you find it necessary. i would prefer a little more restraint in this sitch.

[Hawks Coach]

Need to correct my quick fingered rule reference - the reference is 9-1-7, not 9-7. So sorry

[Peter Devana]

Hawks Coach- We must do things a lot different up here but in 40 years I have only seen that called once and the official who was being evaluated at the time was really raked over the coals for calling it. I never forgot that day and I have always found a way to prevent such things without bringing attention to myself and have never been accused of favoring or coaching a team on those occassions. I agree with the philosophy that the rules are just a guide and I believe that most of the top officials in the States handle these situations in a similar manner.I have worked with your top D1 officials on occassion and I know they would never get involved in a situation like that- they would prevent it in a manner similar to what I have suggested.That's one of the reasons they reached that level.

[Bart Tyson]

I've only heard it being called once. couple years ago. Kansas U. player.

[Hawks Coach]

Peter

I am all for a liberal calling of this "violation". I just can't see you warning a player based on an 8 second count, which is how this transpired (the first FT wasn't a violation). As I read it, you suggested making a warning for being close to a delay after the first FT, which I can't support because you have no reason to warn a player who is within the legal time limit. That could be how they always shoot free throws. You will now have them thinking that maybe they are taking too long, that their 8 seconds was actually 12 and they will get a violation if they do the same thing on the next FT. Then they rush their rhythm and lose their concentration, all based on a warning without cause.

I would agree that I have never seen this called, and i have seen some people take a long time. But I do see many refs counting, and I have always assumed that if they are counting, they must intend to call a violation if it occurs. I guess I can see a warning rather than a call early in the game, if that's the way the associations expect it to be done. I just think that you can call this kind of thing early, can ignore it late.

[JLK]

To count or not to count...that is the question!!

If you are counting in the begining of the game, you better be counting with 4.8 seconds left in the game(Consistency). I wonder why no one has mentioned the "Big Brother" factor. Most games I officiate, have at least 1 video camera recording the game. I would never want to get myself caught on tape not counting when I should be counting. I count for backcourt even if the team will be in the frontcourt in 3 seconds.

"Officials should not affect the outcome of the game." I don't think Paul affected the outcome of the game. The player put him in a position where he had to make this particular call...albit not a popular one. Players know they have a limit on how long they can take to shoot a free throw (just like they know they can't camp in the lane for more than 3 seconds). I also think Paul did a wonderful job of giving the player as much leeway as possible.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
reminded the others to not move across the lanes before the shot was released

Don't you mean hits backboard/rim? (assuming HS ball)

[Peter Devana]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Don't you mean hits backboard/rim? (assuming HS ball)

I was referring to NCAA Men's rules -sorry