Coach uses F*** word

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

I'm paraphrasing BktBallRef; what you permit, you promote.

Thank you Chris. You said it so much nicer than I did. I'll have to work on that!

[zebraman]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I disagree. In this instance, I think it was a flagrant T. In most states, the ejection carries an automatic penalty (suspension for some periopd of time). If you record the flagrant T, then the coach sits. If you just write it up later, the coach (perhaps) gets only a slap on the wrist.

If the situation happened with one second to go in the game, we'd report it, even if the resulting throws wouldn't affect the game. Treat it no differently if it happens just after the game ends.

Of course we would report it if there was one second left in the game. That's a whole different situation. But we're talking about officials who are leaving the floor. I would venture to say that the coach who yelled at the officials is from the team that lost. Just get the heck off the floor.

Around here, the coach would still get suspended from the officials report, regardless of whether or not the officials walked back to the scorer's table to have a T entered in the book. Around here, officials who went back to the scorer's table would also be asked, "why the heck did you walk back out into the hornets nest to call a T that had no effect on anything?"

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bob jenkins


I disagree. In this instance, I think it was a flagrant T. In most states, the ejection carries an automatic penalty (suspension for some periopd of time). If you record the flagrant T, then the coach sits. If you just write it up later, the coach (perhaps) gets only a slap on the wrist.

If the situation happened with one second to go in the game, we'd report it, even if the resulting throws wouldn't affect the game. Treat it no differently if it happens just after the game ends.

Bob,

There have been coaches in our state that got suspended for their conduct that were not called in the setting of the game. I think filing the report is enough. I am not going to report a T in the setting where a coach is acting a fool. I want to get the heck out of dodge and report the incident to the state. Let the state take issue with his conduct.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebraman
[/B]

Of course we would report it if there was one second left in the game. That's a whole different situation.

[/B][/QUOTE]Z, for the life of me, I just can't see where this is a "whole different situation". The bottom line is that it happened during our jurisdiction. Does it really matter whether it happened in the pre-game, during the game, or before we've left the floor?

I can see the argument of someone maybe saying that this isn't a flagrant or unsporting act in their own personal opinion, and as such, they would just ignore it and not call it. I wouldn't agree with that, but I can certainly respect their right to have that opinion. I can't see the logic however of someone that agrees that it is an unsporting(and even flagrant unsporting) act, but recommending that we should just ignore an act like that. Imo, that does a great dis-service to the next crew of officials who have to put up with that coach. Again, jmo.

[JRutledge]

My question is why this is a "Flagrant foul?"

Why is the "F" word so much worse than any other curse word? Maybe it is to some, but it is not to me. You can say a lot of other things that I would consider Flagrant and are not considered curse words.

I do not understand why this word is so objectionable but other words are not treated the same way.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Bob,

There have been coaches in our state that got suspended for their conduct that were not called in the setting of the game. I think filing the report is enough. I am not going to report a T in the setting where a coach is acting a fool. I want to get the heck out of dodge and report the incident to the state. Let the state take issue with his conduct.

Peace

But, there have also been instances where the respone to the report was "it wasn't bad enough to earn a T, so it's not bad enough to punish now." (That's anecdotal, of course).

It doesn't take any time to walk past the scorer's table, instruct them to record a T, then leave. Now, you're covered.

[JRutledge]

I have heard similar things, but they were about situations that happen during the game. This is after the game as the officials are leaving the court. I am not going back to the table where this coach is to just record a T in the book. And just because I tell them to do that, does not mean they will put that in the book. What if this is the home coach, do you think they home book might not take too kindly to your request? Why exacerbate the situation. Get off the court and file a report. Let the state take care of the rest. If they think nothing should be done, oh well. At least this is in a file somewhere and someone is on notice of this coach's behavior.

Peace

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally posted by JRutledge
My question is why this is a "Flagrant foul?"

Why is the "F" word so much worse than any other curse word? Maybe it is to some, but it is not to me. You can say a lot of other things that I would consider Flagrant and are not considered curse words.

I do not understand why this word is so objectionable but other words are not treated the same way.

Peace

My opinion... because this type of language is not permitted in the classroom especially when it is coming from the educators. Where I officiate, the gym is an extension of the classroom and what is not acceptable there is not acceptable in the gym. You would not allow a teacher to tell a student in front of the class (or in private for that matter) that he "competed f'd up on his exam". Completely unacceptable.

And I don't think it is just that word. I think Bob, Tony JR, et al would have the same response had the coach told the officials that they "were all b!tches" or that they were "complete a$$holes". They are words, but agree or not some are not acceptable in our culture especially in this environment! As a parent, I would come unglued, If my kid's coach set this kind of example.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie


My opinion... because this type of language is not permitted in the classroom especially when it is coming from the educators. Where I officiate, the gym is an extension of the classroom and what is not acceptable there is not acceptable in the gym. You would not allow a teacher to tell a student in front of the class (or in private for that matter) that he "competed f'd up on his exam". Completely unacceptable.

And I don't think it is just that word. I think Bob, Tony JR, et al would have the same response had the coach told the officials that they "were all b!tches" or that they were "complete a$$holes". They are words, but agree or not some are not acceptable in our culture especially in this environment! As a parent, I would come unglued, If my kid's coach set this kind of example.

I did not ask you if the words were acceptable. I asked why this word was flagrant.

I also do not care what others think like Bob, Tony or JR think as it relates to my own philosophy. I do not have to accept their point of view on it because it offends them. You call me a "b!tch" I might take that a lot differently than most here depending on who said it and in what context it is used. Any official has the right to take on whatever point of view on this they like, but I just wanted to know why this word was so bad and deserved an automatic ejection and other words for some reason do not meet that criteria.

Peace

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Not sure why I feel compelled to respond...but

Rar,
You don't write like a simpleton so I must assume that you truly DO understand the answers that have been given and are simply trying to instigate this situation. Your feigned ignorance of game ending management and the silly inclusion of calling Tony's statements contradictory is laughable. (Snicker, snicker.) You don't appear to be trying to understand but rather to create a brou-ha-ha.

To restate what Tony and Chris have said 'what you permit, you promote.' Whatever we are willing to tolerate is exactly what we will have. I couldn't agree more strongly.

In another discussion thread on this forum, a Pennsylvania offical was man-handled by a parent ('inadvertantly' body slammed). The official has been permanently debilitated since the event. At the conclusion of the case the Judge made a public statement that sports fans are getting out of hand and then found the offender guilty of Simple Assault. He handed out a trivial penalty where a severe, maximum penalty was appropriate.

Is it any small wonder that fans are getting out of hand? The Judge permitted/tolerated these terrible acts and essentially promoted them by only delivering a trivial penalty. Shont also promoted such behavior because he did not immediately turn around and let everyone know (fans, players, coaches) that cursing at the officials as they leave the court will absolutely not be tolerated. These actions were publically permitted and therefore publically promoted. It is now okay to publically say at the top of your voice that the 'officials f***** the players.'

Now here's my real riff... Because Shont tolerated it, now it's gong to happen again. Because the Judge said that it was no big deal to have parents enter the court and physically injure the officials, it will likely happen again. We seem to be our own worst enemy.

There is no high horse here. Think of it as a training ground. Shont has likely learned what the proper response should have been and will likely enforce it next time.

Rut is rarely on the same page as anyone else. F-bombs are apparently okay with him... again, we are our own worst enemy. Rut, I recommend that you join the crowd. The F-bomb is not a publically acceptable word and the penalty should be appropriately enforced by ALL officials.

[Junker]

Any coach that uses profanity and questions your integrity after the game needs to be sat down for a while. I would not hesitate to call this kind of behavior flagrant. There was a coach in our area that did this on Tuesday night. He didn't get to coach when I saw his team on Friday night.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Rut is rarely on the same page as anyone else. F-bombs are apparently okay with him... again, we are our own worst enemy. Rut, I recommend that you join the crowd. The F-bomb is not a publically acceptable word and the penalty should be appropriately enforced by ALL officials.

First of all that is a huge mischaracterization of my point of view. If I was so much off base of anyone else, then I would not be working the places and the games that I do. I might be off base with people that live in other states and do not have the same experience or values that I hold, or work in the same places.

Where did I say using the "F" word was acceptable? I think I asked why it was a "Flagrant Foul?" I can see a T, but not necessarily and "automatic Flagrant T" as Tony tells everyone this should be. I also said to file a report which in my book is very serious. In my state when you write a report, the Principle, AD and the coach would all get a copy from that school. Then the State would require a response from the individual to defend their actions or tell the state how they are going to prevent that action from happening again. I do not consider writing a report "accepting behavior." Accepting the behavior would be to do absolutely nothing. I have heard players say things and I am not sure exactly what is said, I always address it or say something like, "I hope I did not hear you say what I think you said." Usually they get the message and no Ts are given. I work in many games where it is very loud and hard to hear everything being said clearly. I am not sure I would have heard such a thing going off the court. If I did I would just fill out a report and let the state and school deal with the actions. Those special reports might result in a coach losing their jobs, not just a game or two.

Peace

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I did not ask you if the words were acceptable. I asked why this word was flagrant.

I also do not care what others think like Bob, Tony or JR think as it relates to my own philosophy. I do not have to accept their point of view on it because it offends them. You call me a "b!tch" I might take that a lot differently than most here depending on who said it and in what context it is used. Any official has the right to take on whatever point of view on this they like, but I just wanted to know why this word was so bad and deserved an automatic ejection and other words for some reason do not meet that criteria.

Peace

And I gave you a reason. It is flagrant because it is not acceptable language and it is probably the one of the worst shows of sportsmanship I have heard of in a while, especially in an education environment. If you don't agree, then don't agree. You asked "why" so I gave you my opinion. I also made the point that it is not just the F word but many other curse words. Your question seemed to imply that it was the F word that was drawing so much ire and I was making the point that it is not just the F word that may justify a flagrant T but many other unacceptable words in an education envrironment.

If you don't agree, that is fine, but I was answering your question from my point of view. I'm done with this...

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I think I asked why it was a "Flagrant Foul?"

It's not the F word that makes it flagrant. It's this quote from the original post that makes it flagrant:

"the head coach of this team shouted "I hope you can sleep tonight because you just f***ed my boys tonight". "You just f***ed my boys"."

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie



And I gave you a reason. It is flagrant because it is not acceptable language and it is probably the one of the worst shows of sportsmanship I have heard of in a while, especially in an education environment. If you don't agree, then don't agree. You asked "why" so I gave you my opinion. I also made the point that it is not just the F word but many other curse words. Your question seemed to imply that it was the F word that was drawing so much ire and I was making the point that it is not just the F word that may justify a flagrant T but many other unacceptable words in an education envrironment.

So are the words "$h!t, damn and b!tch" but I do not hear anyone wanting to throw out players for those type of language. That is really my point. The F-word is not the only unacceptable language in the classroom or in an educational environment. But for some reason this word is the only one that seems to bring out the "ejection" calling. I know I hear a lot of unacceptable language on and off the court (or field) and I do not see anyone ejecting anyone for the use of this word or any other word you cannot hear on network TV.

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
If you don't agree, that is fine, but I was answering your question from my point of view. I'm done with this...

Not sure what the attitude was about. I do not recall that I was just responding to your post alone. I wanted to know why there was a double standard. I am not asking for agreement, just understanding of that point of view.

Peace