Call what you *see*, right?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
A1 raises her arms with the ball in an atempt to shoot. You see defender's arm come down in front to the shooter to slap the ball. sound or no sound, the ball goes up and the shooter's arms go down. You know there is contact on the arms, but you didn't see it. What is the call/no call?

That one's being taught now in some D1 camps, I understand.
Ball goes down----> legal check
Ball goes up------> foul

[Mark Dexter]

PLEASE remember, everyone - the hand is NOT part of the ball! For any purpose!

As previously posted, incidental contact that's related to trying to play the ball is not deemed a foul. A player/shooter can still be fouled "on the hand" if the contact is severe enough.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
PLEASE remember, everyone - the hand is NOT part of the ball! For any purpose!

As previously posted, incidental contact that's related to trying to play the ball is not deemed a foul. A player/shooter can still be fouled "on the hand" if the contact is severe enough.

Wrong, Mark.

The rule is already in this thread, severity plays no part on the call per rule.

[Edited by blindzebra on Feb 1st, 2005 at 05:25 PM]

[Maverick]

Originally posted by blindzebra

Wrong, Mark.

The rule is already in this thread, severity plays no part on the call per rule.

[Edited by blindzebra on Feb 1st, 2005 at 05:25 PM]

It is posted earlier but Mark is correct. It says "incidental" contact is allowed. Contact with the hand that causes a player to loose control of the ball isn't incidental; it has a large impact on play.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Maverick

It is posted earlier but Mark is correct. It says "incidental" contact is allowed. Contact with the hand that causes a player to loose control of the ball isn't incidental; it has a large impact on play.

No, it says CONTACT INCIDENTAL TO PLAYING THE BALL, not incidental contact. That means hitting the hand while in contact with the ball is like hitting the ball.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by blindzebra
No, it says CONTACT INCIDENTAL TO PLAYING THE BALL, not incidental contact. That means hitting the hand while in contact with the ball is like hitting the ball.

[/B]

How can it be incidental if it causes the offense to loose control of the ball or be unable to release a shot/pass? Under 4-27 (Incidental Contact):

"ART.2...Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe.
ART.3...Similarly, contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental."

So it is correct to say that the severity doesn't come into play but I don't see how it can be argued that it wouldn't "hinder the opponent from participating in normal ... offensive movements."

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Maverick

How can it be incidental if it causes the offense to loose control of the ball or be unable to release a shot/pass? Under 4-27 (Incidental Contact):

"ART.2...Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe.
ART.3...Similarly, contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental."

So it is correct to say that the severity doesn't come into play but I don't see how it can be argued that it wouldn't "hinder the opponent from participating in normal ... offensive movements."
[/B]

Once again it is NOT INCIDENTAL CONTACT. Read the rule it says contact incidental to playing the ball. That means contact on the hand which is on the ball is NOT a foul. It does not matter if the ball is knocked loose or the offensive players hand gets broken, it is the same as hitting the ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by blindzebra

Once again it is NOT INCIDENTAL CONTACT. Read the rule it says contact incidental to playing the ball. That means contact on the hand which is on the ball is NOT a foul. It does not matter if the ball is knocked loose or the offensive players hand gets broken, it is the same as hitting the ball. [/B]

This is absolutely correct. I've even had my hand broken by such a play and it was not a foul...it sure hurt though.

No foul for hitting the hand when it is on the ball while holding, passing, shooting, or dribbling.