Call what you *see*, right?

[WyMike]

BMS game. I'm L and the ball is on the far side within the arc so I slide to the lane and am about 4' off from the end line. A1 passes into the lane to A2 whom turns and goes for an easy bucket directly in front of me and right underneath the goal.

To me it looked as if A2 jumped towards the goal like he was going for a lay-up. As he makes his successful try, I can hear the coach and crowd yelling about something and it dawns on me A2 was pushed from behind and directly toewards me - but I never actually saw the *push* - as I was straightlined. (I did learn from this so no work on your mechanics stuff!)

Coach was upset about it and rightfully so. So I spoke to him right afterwards since I was now trailing on his side going the other way. Before he could make any comments I said, "Sorry coach I missed the push. I thought he jumped forward and I was straightlined." He said I needed to be watching that and was perturbed but did let it go and nothing further happened during the game.

It's a dangerous play/foul and protecting the shooter while in the air and vulnerable is my main concern. Does anybody hit their whistle on the coach/crowd noise when you realized something was going on and had an idea of what it was but didn't actually "see" it?

I've never called something I didn't actually see with my own eye's in any sport.

I also had a recent PC charge a coach told me I had missed as the T when it had occurred on the end line in the paint. From where I stood I couldn't tell if the B player was set or not. B hit the floor but I know there was very little contact between A & B.

To me this was in the primary of the L and he didn't make the call. Either way, I did not see either play well enough to make a call. Am I correct here by not making a call in either case?

[buckrog64]

I'd rather miss something than make something up that I didn't see, even if 300 other people saw it. You miss it, you take your lumps, and work harder next time so hopefully it won't happen.

Seeing is believing.....

[cmathews]

hey Mike hows things up north?? If the kid didn't lurch enough for you to "see" that there had been contact, and he made the layup, there was probably very little advantage gained...I say you did fine...you already mentioned the mechanics thing, but this is a great example of a 3 man being a better system, however at the MS level we won't see it here for a while LOL...

[blindzebra]

No, don't blow your whistle based on the reaction of the fans/coaches/players.

Your partner should have been in position to help you on this play, since the play, A1's pass, started in their primary.

Pregame this type of thing, because with 2 officials, trail NEEDS to be aggressive.

Oh, and stay out of the paint.

[zebraman]

Don't guess. Work to get a better angle next time.

Z

[Maverick]

I try never to call anything I didn't see, even if I *think* something happened. About the only call I'll make without actually seeing it is if someone takes a big slap at the ball but I can't actually see the contact. It's usually pretty easy to differentiate the sound of slapping leather vs. slapping skin.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Maverick
I try never to call anything I didn't see, even if I *think* something happened. About the only call I'll make without actually seeing it is if someone takes a big slap at the ball but I can't actually see the contact. It's usually pretty easy to differentiate the sound of slapping leather vs. slapping skin.

Hand is part of the ball.

Hand is made of skin.

Defenders have been know to slap their hands together to distract the shooter.

Defender could swing and hit their own leg, or another defender.

We are not bats, we should NEVER make a call based on sound.

[golfdesigner]

still be cautious on slapping skin, hand in contact w/ ball is part of the ball, slap there is fair game. Also have seen others close by slap own hands, simulating slap by defender on ball handler...
Better to call what you see not what you hear.

Sorry BZ we were typing the response at the same time, didn't want to step on your toes.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by Maverick
I try never to call anything I didn't see, even if I *think* something happened. About the only call I'll make without actually seeing it is if someone takes a big slap at the ball but I can't actually see the contact. It's usually pretty easy to differentiate the sound of slapping leather vs. slapping skin.

You just contradicted yourself. If you don't see it, don't call it. Simple as that. When I was a newer ref and more easily intimidated by my surroundings and lack of experience, I would once in a while call what I thought happened, but didn't really see. Trust me, it gets you into more trouble than just not calling anything. You can't explain what you "saw" if anyone asks because you didn't really see anything. Once I got comfortable and my confidence kicked in, I am now able to tell a coach flat out "I didn't see it" and that's usually that. I have no problem with it - it just makes me work harder to eliminate those types of situations. Experience is everything in what we do. And experience takes a lot of time and effort. Allow yourself the time to grow and learn.

[lds7199]

Originally posted by blindzebra

Hand is part of the ball.

Hand is made of skin.

Defenders have been know to slap their hands together to distract the shooter.

Defender could swing and hit their own leg, or another defender.

We are not bats, we should NEVER make a call based on sound.

Ok, what is the rule reference that supports the hand is part of the ball? I just had this discussion with another ref. and would like to have the rule reference.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by lds7199

Ok, what is the rule reference that supports the hand is part of the ball? I just had this discussion with another ref. and would like to have the rule reference.

10-6-1, He/she shall not contact the opponent with his/her hand UNLESS SUCH CONTACT IS ONLY WITH THE OPPONENT'S HAND WHILE IT IS IN CONTACT WITH THE BALL AND IS INCIDENTAL TO AN ATTEMPT TO PLAY THE BALL.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Maverick
About the only call I'll make without actually seeing it is if someone takes a big slap at the ball but I can't actually see the contact. It's usually pretty easy to differentiate the sound of slapping leather vs. slapping skin.

Big, big mistake. Never call anything by sound, especially something that could quite possibly be a legal play.

[Bart Tyson]

A1 raises her arms with the ball in an atempt to shoot. You see defender's arm come down in front to the shooter to slap the ball. sound or no sound, the ball goes up and the shooter's arms go down. You know there is contact on the arms, but you didn't see it. What is the call/no call?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
A1 raises her arms with the ball in an atempt to shoot. You see defender's arm come down in front to the shooter to slap the ball. sound or no sound, the ball goes up and the shooter's arms go down. You know there is contact on the arms, but you didn't see it. What is the call/no call?

You know there is contact how? You would be quessing. That is why we have secondary whistles.

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by blindzebra

You know there is contact how? You would be quessing. That is why we have secondary whistles.

How do I know? Common sense.