Another Backcourt Question. Sorry!

Rick Durkee · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 12:20pm

I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

joseph2493 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 12:26pm

I would have to go with Backcourt if I had the definate knowledge that it sounds like you had. If not definate knowledge whether all three had frontcourt status then hold your whisle.

Both feet were in frontcourt and the ball had frontcourt status. When the ball came down in backcourt you have a violation.

The ball crossing the plane before the foot came down has nothing to do with its status.

SamIAm · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 02:43pm

For a dribbler, the ball has backcourt status until all three of the following are in the front court at the same time: Left foot, Right foot, and the ball. This applies to a dribbler only. Any two can be in the front court or backcourt and the ball still has backcourt status and the dribbler can legally retreat to the backcourt.

I would give credit if I knew who said it but I don't: You can dribble all the way to the baseline and back in to the backcourt while hopping on one foot if you were dribbling when you crossed the halfcourt line.

You should then whistle a 10 second violation on the dribbler.

I would not have whistled a BC violation by your description, but I was not there.

[Edited by SamIAm on Jan 31st, 2005 at 02:48 PM]

BktBallRef · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 02:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

This is not a violation. Both feet and the ball must be in the FC without any of the three still touching the BC.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 31st, 2005 at 02:51 PM]

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 02:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
I would give credit if I knew who said it but I don't: You can dribble all the way to the baseline and back in to the backcourt while hopping on one foot if you were dribbling when you crossed the halfcourt line.

You should then whistle a 10 second violation on the dribbler.

I wouldn't make that call if I were you.

The rule assumes a player who is walking/running normally on two feet. This player is NOT in the BC. The 10 second count better stop when it's obvious that he is no longer in the BC.

joseph2493 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 02:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

This is not a violation. Both feet and the ball must be in the BC without any of the three still touching the BC.

The two feet were in the frontcourt and the ball had frontcourt status before the ball went down in the backcourt...how is that not a violation?

DownTownTonyBrown · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 02:58pm

Ball and one foot are in frontcourt.

Last foot goes into frontcourt.

Next dribble of the ball is in backcourt.

Tony/BBR How is that not a BC violation?

Did I read this differently than you did?

gordon30307 · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

Back court violation. Ball and foot in front court and one foot in back court. As soon the player lifts the foot in the backcourt the ball has front court status. As I understand it the foot was lifted and the ball was then dribbled in the backcourt. Backcourt violation.

Smitty · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

Back court violation. Ball and foot in front court and one foot in back court. As soon the player lifts the foot in the backcourt the ball has front court status. As I understand it the foot was lifted and the ball was then dribbled in the backcourt. Backcourt violation.

Not if the player was still dribbling. Need both feet and the ball completely touching frontcourt in order for a dribbler to be in frontcourt.

gordon30307 · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

Back court violation. Ball and foot in front court and one foot in back court. As soon the player lifts the foot in the backcourt the ball has front court status. As I understand it the foot was lifted and the ball was then dribbled in the backcourt. Backcourt violation.

Not if the player was still dribbling. Need both feet and the ball completely touching frontcourt in order for a dribbler to be in frontcourt.

Has Smitty as soon as the foot is lifted the ball has front court status. See case 4.4.1

Jurassic Referee · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

Back court violation. Ball and foot in front court and one foot in back court. As soon the player lifts the foot in the backcourt the ball has front court status. As I understand it the foot was lifted and the ball was then dribbled in the backcourt. Backcourt violation.

Not if the player was still dribbling. Need both feet and the ball completely touching frontcourt in order for a dribbler to be in frontcourt.

Has Smitty as soon as the foot is lifted the ball has front court status. See case 4.4.1

Case book play 4.4.1 isn't applicable. It pertains to a player holding a ball, not dribbling.Rule 4-4-6 is the applicable rule.

gordon30307 · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 04:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
I hope I can explain this so it can be understood, and I am sorry if this is an issue that has alreay been addressed.

A1 is dribbling the ball in his backcourt moving toward the frontcourt. B1 steps up to guard him right at the division line. A1 puts his left foot down in the frontcourt and he bounces the ball a time or two in the front court. A1's right foot remained on the floor in the backcourt. Then, in an effort to spin away from the defender, A1 reverse pivots and moves his right foot from the backcourt into the frontcourt while simultaneously (more or less) moving the ball back across the division line. The next time the ball hit the floor it was in the backcourt. The right foot landed in the frontcourt discernibly before the ball landed in the backcourt. (It was during a dribble so it wasn't that much before.) The left foot stayed in the frontcourt. I called backcourt because I thought the ball location was frontcourt until it hit in the backcourt. Other local officials think the location of the dribble was already in the backcourt when the ball crossed the division line, but before hitting the floor, or that I cut it too fine and should not have made the call. Well, what do you think?

Rick

Back court violation. Ball and foot in front court and one foot in back court. As soon the player lifts the foot in the backcourt the ball has front court status. As I understand it the foot was lifted and the ball was then dribbled in the backcourt. Backcourt violation.

Not if the player was still dribbling. Need both feet and the ball completely touching frontcourt in order for a dribbler to be in frontcourt.

Has Smitty as soon as the foot is lifted the ball has front court status. See case 4.4.1

Case book play 4.4.1 isn't applicable. It pertains to a player holding a ball, not dribbling.Rule 4-4-6 is the applicable rule.

True but same principle applies as it pertains to ball location.

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 05:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307

[/B]

Has Smitty as soon as the foot is lifted the ball has front court status. See case 4.4.1 [/B][/QUOTE]Case book play 4.4.1 isn't applicable. It pertains to a player holding a ball, not dribbling.Rule 4-4-6 is the applicable rule. [/B][/QUOTE]

True but same principle applies as it pertains to ball location. [/B][/QUOTE]No, the same principle does not apply. That's why "holding the ball" and dribbling the ball" are governed by two completely different ball location rules:
1) "Holding the ball" is covered in R4-4-1,2&4
2) "Dribbling the ball" is covered in R4-4-6.

SamIAm · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 06:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
I would give Credit">credit if I knew who said it but I don't: You can dribble all the way to the baseline and back in to the backcourt while hopping on one foot if you were dribbling when you crossed the halfcourt line.

You should then whistle a 10 second violation on the dribbler.

I wouldn't make that call if I were you.

The rule assumes a player who is walking/running normally on two feet. This player is NOT in the BC. The 10 second count better stop when it's obvious that he is no longer in the BC.

I will call it(a 10-second violation) whenever he/she hops back to the backcourt.

blindzebra · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 31, 2005, 06:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
I would give Credit">credit if I knew who said it but I don't: You can dribble all the way to the baseline and back in to the backcourt while hopping on one foot if you were dribbling when you crossed the halfcourt line.

You should then whistle a 10 second violation on the dribbler.

I wouldn't make that call if I were you.

The rule assumes a player who is walking/running normally on two feet. This player is NOT in the BC. The 10 second count better stop when it's obvious that he is no longer in the BC.

I will call it(a 10-second violation) whenever he/she hops back to the backcourt.

Even if it is NOT yet 10 seconds?