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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 12:05pm
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If a player is dressed out and is sitting on the bench does he/she need to be in the official scorebook?
I had a player that the coach says was not going to play because of a function she attended the night before. The coach still made her attend the game and suit up. I had her put the player in the book due to the fact that she had her uniform on and was sitting on the bench. Is this correct? Is this the same for a player that was ejected from a prior game and is sitting on the bench during this game? I assume that if the player is wearing street clothes then they don't need to be in the book. 
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 12:13pm
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 12:15pm
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I would not force the coach to enter the player in the book. I would rather let the coach decide who is to be entered. That being said if the situation arises that the player is still on the bench and is the only player available for substitution for a disqualification, that would be an admin tech to enter the player in the book. I would try and inform the coach of this possibility, rather than force the issue.
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 12:26pm
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In my area we get the coach at the 10 minute mark to check his book, mark starters, captains, numbers, and initial the bottom. I will count the players beforehand and compare that to the book. When I introduce myself to the coach I will let him kow that I counted 11 on the court and he only has 9 in the book. If he tells me that they will not play I just ask him to initial under the last players name and say good luck.
I am not going to make him put someone in the book. It is his team. I just make him aware of the discrepency and move on.
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 01:03pm
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It doesn't hurt to have that player in the book. The coaches that I appreciate are the ones who have a copy of the whole roster for the season to hand to the table. The ones I've seen like this include the freshman who has only played 3 varsity quarters over the whole year, and the two "starters" who are injured. The roster was typed once, and copies made, and the coach doesn't have to think about it any more. What does it hurt to have the extras in there?
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 01:09pm
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It does not hurt one bit to have them in there. My point is that I am making him aware that the players on the court do not match the number of players in the book.
This is the coaches team, I do not expect them to help me officiate the game nor do I want any of their help in making calls. It is the coaches call as far as how he handles the book and who they choose to put in it and who does not go in the book. If that is how they want the book fine by me. If a change is made down the road during the game it will just be a T. Oh well.
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 01:35pm
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If a player was ejected from a prior game, they should not be dressed in the first place...so it shouldn't be a problem... But like was said already, it's the coaches and book keepers responsibility to have who they want in their book, all you may do is let them know there is a difference between players on bench and in the book, and let it go at that...
__________________
DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 05:05pm
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OK, what if the function that the player attended the night before (I not knowing what it was) made the coach TRULY not want this player to play tonight.
The player is being punished for attending the function. His team ends up with all but four of his players fouling out and not, because the player being disciplined was put in the book, the coach has to play him/her. Not likely that a coach would want to play with only 4 players rather than 5. I've got to go with TwoDot and just inform the coach of the possibility, never force the coach to put someone in their books.
__________________
You can do what you want to do and be what you want to be but you can't be afraid to pay the price!
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 05:50pm
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i still don't think that the coach has to play a player just because they are bench personnel. IMHO, If the coach is trying to instill some discipline into the team and using this kid as an example, then I say good for coach. If someone is punished and his team has to suffer because of their actions then maybe next time they will think twice before being a moron.
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Fri Jan 21, 2005, 07:11pm
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Had this type of situation Tuesday night. Visiting team had 12 in the book, 14 on the floor. My partner was Ref and when he checked the book and discovered this, he gave the coach the chance to add the players explaining the "just in case" situations. The coach said they were not going to play under any circumstance and kindly refused to add the players (all interaction between coach and ref was professional). The book was left as submitted. My partner informed me of the situation when he returned from checking the book and, just before the start of the game we made sure the scorebook keeper knew the situation as well and to inform us if a player is requested to be added or reports for substitution (at the appropriate time).
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Sun Jan 23, 2005, 12:17am
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If a coach tells me a player is ineligible I'm not going to ask the coach to put him in. That player may be ineligible due to grades, team rules, or who knows what.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
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Sun Jan 23, 2005, 01:00am
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No, that's not his call, Bush. If he has a uniformed player on the bench that's healthy and physically able to play, he has to play with 5. If they're inelgibile to play, they shouldn't be dressed.
[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 23rd, 2005 at 01:04 AM]
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Sun Jan 23, 2005, 01:06am
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I'm following the rules, as they are written. If he has 5 healthy available players, he has to have 5 on the floor. If he wants to make her ineligible, she needs to leave the uniform in the locker room.
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Sun Jan 23, 2005, 01:11am
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Sun Jan 23, 2005, 01:32am
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Is correct BY RULE on this. Notice that 4-34-4 states that this uniformed kid on the bench IS a team member. The coach is not allowed to pull a Gene Hackman and play with four when he has a healthy fifth available. The only team members who do not have to enter to maintain five players in the game are those that are already DQ'd and those who are injured. Applicable rules: page 10 "THE GAME - Basketball is played by two teams of five players each." 3-1-1 Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain. NOTE: A team must begin the game with five players, but if it has no substitutes to replace disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five. 3-2-2b + 10-1-2b After the 10-minute time limit... Adding a name to the team member list. 4-34-4 A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.
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