Players in Official Scorebook

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
[/B]

The 48 year-old assistant coach is in a uniform. Eligible player?
[/B][/QUOTE]A not-too-smart 48 year-old playing coach who is still a junior?

Hmmmmmm. Maybe not that rare. I think that I've run into a few assistant coaches that might meet that description.

[Maverick]

I would think it would be possible for a player to be “ineligible” with out being “disqualified”. What about being academically suspended or having to sit out a game for being ejected from a previous game?

[gsf23]

I don't know why it took four pages for this thing, seems rather simple if the coach doesn't want the player in the game.

Ref: Coach, you need to bring in #23 to have five players on the floor.

Coach: #23 is injured.

Ref: Alright.

[Daryl H. Long]

Lots of arguing over a relatively simple matter. And I consider Nevadaref's argument that "eligible" is not specifically defined in rule book to be a specious argument at best and only used to deflect comment away from the real issue that he usually doesn't know what he is talking about. I believe "eligibility" is specifically discussed through definitions of varios terms and concepts that when understood in their simplicity we all know what the word means. To wit, hand, arms, legs, torso, expiration (of time), notification (as in telling coach of disqualified player) are words that are not specifically defined in rule book but we know their meaning.

That said:

The game of basketball is played by two teams.
defn: TEAM: 5 Players (See pg 10 rule book -THE GAME). Live ball/dead ball does not apply here as the designated starters are considered players (3.2.1) and the ones who can be legally on the court for opening Jump ball.

defn: PLAYER: One of the 5 legally on the court. (4.34.1)

defn: BENCH PERSONNEL: others affilited with the team. (4.34.2). For our purposes we are only dealing here with SUBSTITUTES.
defn: SUBSTITUTE: bench personnel/team members who become players (4.34.3)
defn: TEAM MEMBER: is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform AND eligible to become a player (4.34.4). ie. Substitute

There is only ONE way to determine who is eligible to become a player and that is the coach must state in writing that the person on the bench is a teammember. (Rule 3.2.1). The coach is the sole judge of whose names he submits and cannot be forced by any other person to put any name on the list he does not want to. Only those names which the coach supplies to be placed in the official scorebook may be players or substitutes. Others, whose names are not on this list but on the bench (whether in uniform or not) may not play or be forced to play but are still considered bench personnel.

Example 1: Jon Jones is a junior in high school sitting on the team bench and a) is wearing team uniform, or b) is wearing street clothes. His name is not in the official scorebook how do we define his status per NFHS Rules?

Answer: He is not listed as a team member therefore he cannot be a player or a substitute. All others on the bench who are neither payers nor substitutes are defined as bench personnel. Jon is just BENCH PERSONNEL whether wearing uniform or not.

Example 2: Can the coach change Jon's status. Yes. In a.) The coach must add his name into the official scorebook (with or without penalty given time restraints per 3.2.1 and 3.2.2). Once Jon becomes a TEAM MEMBER he is ELIGIBLE to become a PLAYER by reporting to the scorer's table as a SUBSTITUTE who is ready and entitled to enter (3.3.1.d) By the way, "entitled" is not specifically defined so I hope NEVADAREF doesn't wish to argue this either).

In b. Jon must put on a uniform and be entered by coach into official score book.

Example 3: Jon is on the bench wearing team uniform. his name is not in the official scorebook. Players of his team foul out leaving only 4 players to finish the game. a.) Can the coach add Jon's name? b.)Do rules mandate that coach MUST enter jon's name? c.) Can the officials mandate that the coach MUST enter Jon's name. d.) Does his team have to forfeit? eadditional team members foul out leaving only one can the coach voluntarily enter Jon at this time even though he opted not to earlier?

Answers:
a. Yes, with penalty 3.2.2.b
b. NO
c. NO, not within their jurisdiction.
d. NO a team may play with fewer than five.
e. YES, although if his team still has the opportunity to win the game with one player he does not have to.

The point is it is solely the coach's decision whose names shall be in the rulebook and solely within his discretion when any name is entered/added before and during the game.

[Adam]

Daryl,
Don't you work with De Nucci? Or is my memory failing me at 30?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long
Lots of arguing over a relatively simple matter. And I consider Nevadaref's argument that "eligible" is not specifically defined in rule book to be a specious argument at best and only used to deflect comment away from the real issue that he usually doesn't know what he is talking about. I believe "eligibility" is specifically discussed through definitions of varios terms and concepts that when understood in their simplicity we all know what the word means. To wit, hand, arms, legs, torso, expiration (of time), notification (as in telling coach of disqualified player) are words that are not specifically defined in rule book but we know their meaning.

That said:

The game of basketball is played by two teams.
defn: TEAM: 5 Players (See pg 10 rule book -THE GAME). Live ball/dead ball does not apply here as the designated starters are considered players (3.2.1) and the ones who can be legally on the court for opening Jump ball.

defn: PLAYER: One of the 5 legally on the court. (4.34.1)

defn: BENCH PERSONNEL: others affilited with the team. (4.34.2). For our purposes we are only dealing here with SUBSTITUTES.
defn: SUBSTITUTE: bench personnel/team members who become players (4.34.3)
defn: TEAM MEMBER: is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform AND eligible to become a player (4.34.4). ie. Substitute

There is only ONE way to determine who is eligible to become a player and that is the coach must state in writing that the person on the bench is a teammember. (Rule 3.2.1). The coach is the sole judge of whose names he submits and cannot be forced by any other person to put any name on the list he does not want to. Only those names which the coach supplies to be placed in the official scorebook may be players or substitutes. Others, whose names are not on this list but on the bench (whether in uniform or not) may not play or be forced to play but are still considered bench personnel.

Example 1: Jon Jones is a junior in high school sitting on the team bench and a) is wearing team uniform, or b) is wearing street clothes. His name is not in the official scorebook how do we define his status per NFHS Rules?

Answer: He is not listed as a team member therefore he cannot be a player or a substitute. All others on the bench who are neither payers nor substitutes are defined as bench personnel. Jon is just BENCH PERSONNEL whether wearing uniform or not.

Example 2: Can the coach change Jon's status. Yes. In a.) The coach must add his name into the official scorebook (with or without penalty given time restraints per 3.2.1 and 3.2.2). Once Jon becomes a TEAM MEMBER he is ELIGIBLE to become a PLAYER by reporting to the scorer's table as a SUBSTITUTE who is ready and entitled to enter (3.3.1.d) By the way, "entitled" is not specifically defined so I hope NEVADAREF doesn't wish to argue this either).

In b. Jon must put on a uniform and be entered by coach into official score book.

Example 3: Jon is on the bench wearing team uniform. his name is not in the official scorebook. Players of his team foul out leaving only 4 players to finish the game. a.) Can the coach add Jon's name? b.)Do rules mandate that coach MUST enter jon's name? c.) Can the officials mandate that the coach MUST enter Jon's name. d.) Does his team have to forfeit? eadditional team members foul out leaving only one can the coach voluntarily enter Jon at this time even though he opted not to earlier?

Answers:
a. Yes, with penalty 3.2.2.b
b. NO
c. NO, not within their jurisdiction.
d. NO a team may play with fewer than five.
e. YES, although if his team still has the opportunity to win the game with one player he does not have to.

The point is it is solely the coach's decision whose names shall be in the rulebook and solely within his discretion when any name is entered/added before and during the game.

BRAVO!! BRAVO!! BRAVO!!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Daryl,
Don't you work with De Nucci? Or is my memory failing me at 30?

That's my partner.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

That's my partner.

MTD, Sr.

Good grief, what's your pregame like?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Daryl,
Don't you work with De Nucci? Or is my memory failing me at 30?

Isn't it quite obvious? Why use 20 words when 11,200 will do.

If he didn't work with MTD Sr., he should.

Lah me. The King and the Crown Prince of convoluted arguments.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Good grief, what's your pregame like?

Four days.

[Daryl H. Long]

I give thanks daily for the 4 day pregame with MTD.

Just think if he got all his old pregames out of the attic they would be more like 40 day and 40 nights. A real deluge.

[Daryl H. Long]

Anyone wishing me to pray for Nevadaref can send $10.00. For that you will get the prayer, plus as a one time offer I will send a letter opener to remove his rule books from their seal, and a dictionary.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Daryl H. Long
And I consider Nevadaref's argument that "eligible" is not specifically defined in rule book to be a specious argument at best and only used to deflect comment away from the real issue that he usually doesn't know what he is talking about.

So you don't agree with what he says in this thread, so that means that "he usually doesn't know what he is talking about?"

You know what Rev? That's bull$hit. And I don't mind telling you that it is.

NVRef is a valuable contributor to this board. He and I don't always see eye to eye but personally, I think has a very good understanding of the rules and how to apply them. To date, he's certainly contributed a whole lot more to this site than you have.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

So you don't agree with what he says in this thread, so that means that "he usually doesn't know what he is talking about?"

You know what Rev? That's bull$hit. And I don't mind telling you that it is.

NVRef is a valuable contributor to this board. He and I don't always see eye to eye but personally, I think has a very good understanding of the rules and how to apply them. To date, he's certainly contributed a whole lot more to this site than you have.

I gotta agree with BBR...we might not see eye to eye (or is that an eye for an eye) on this issue, but NevadaRef does USUALLY know what he is talking about.
Give him a break Rev.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

So you don't agree with what he says in this thread, so that means that "he usually doesn't know what he is talking about?"

You know what Rev? That's bull$hit. And I don't mind telling you that it is.

NVRef is a valuable contributor to this board. He and I don't always see eye to eye but personally, I think has a very good understanding of the rules and how to apply them. To date, he's certainly contributed a whole lot more to this site than you have.

Gotta agree with BktBallRef on this one too. I respect Nevada's knowledge of the rules also.