Charge or no call

[iref4him]

A fellow referee ask me the following:

"A1 breaks away from B1 and is driving to the basket. (He made his move around the division line.) B2 is not paying attention to what is going on, had his back to A1, and is standing. As A1 is driving, he collides into B1. WHat would you call?"

He told me that this actually happened and the official called A1 charging since B2 had the right to the spot on the floor and was there before A1. I would have gone with a No Call. Any thoughts.

[joseph2493]

Originally posted by iref4him
A fellow referee ask me the following:

"A1 breaks away from B1 and is driving to the basket. (He made his move around the division line.) B2 is not paying attention to what is going on, had his back to A1, and is standing. As A1 is driving, he collides into B1. WHat would you call?"

He told me that this actually happened and the official called A1 charging since B2 had the right to the spot on the floor and was there before A1. I would have gone with a No Call. Any thoughts.

Can't be charging...charging is into the torso.

I might have a player control in this situation. Depends on how severe it is. I'm sure that I would not have a block. If not severe I would go with your no call.

[Jurassic Referee]

The dribbler collides with an opponent who has a legal position on the court? If it's a collision, I got a PC foul.

[Adam]

If B 1 is displaced in any way, PC.

[David B]

Originally posted by iref4him
A fellow referee ask me the following:

"A1 breaks away from B1 and is driving to the basket. (He made his move around the division line.) B2 is not paying attention to what is going on, had his back to A1, and is standing. As A1 is driving, he collides into B1. WHat would you call?"

He told me that this actually happened and the official called A1 charging since B2 had the right to the spot on the floor and was there before A1. I would have gone with a No Call. Any thoughts.

I would think it would depend on whether B2 had legal guarding position or not.

For that to happen he would have to be facing the opponent at some time before A1 made contact.

Now once legal guarding position has been obtained, he can turn his back or what ever and his status remains the same.

But if B2 is completely unaware of A1 then he probably never was facing him and never had legal guarding status.

Thanks
David

[mick]

A1 was out of control.
PC, if B2 is displaced.
mick

[Grail]

Every player is entitled to a place on the court, provided they did nothing illegal to get that place. A1 is not entitled to the space that someone else is in, regardless of what direction he is facing. A1 has committed a foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by David B
[/B]

I would think it would depend on whether B2 had legal guarding position or not.

For that to happen he would have to be facing the opponent at some time before A1 made contact.

Now once legal guarding position has been obtained, he can turn his back or what ever and his status remains the same.

[/B][/QUOTE]David, if A1 pushed off a defender running beside him with an elbow or forearm, would you call the foul for the contact on the defender because he didn't have a legal guarding position?

[David B]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I would think it would depend on whether B2 had legal guarding position or not.

For that to happen he would have to be facing the opponent at some time before A1 made contact.

Now once legal guarding position has been obtained, he can turn his back or what ever and his status remains the same.

[/B]

David, if A1 pushed off a defender running beside him with an elbow or forearm, would you call the foul for the contact on the defender because he didn't have a legal guarding position? [/B][/QUOTE]

I wasn't very clear in my post. You are right it would be a foul. Maybe I just needed another cup of coffee or something.

I don't know what I was thinking. I was thinking it would be a foul but not a PC.

But now that I think further, a foul by player with the ball has to be a PC.

Thanks for clearing up my error.

Thanks
David

[tjones1]

I've got a PC foul as well.

[Texas Aggie]

There's no question there isn't legal guarding position, but this isn't relevent since the dribbler has the ability to avoid contact. "Facing" the dribbler applies when a player gets in the dribbler's way and it would be a charge had the defender faced the dribbler, i.e., the dribbler probably couldn't avoid contact. But now its a block as the defender has assumed responsibility for contact. When the dribbler is 35 feet away, that isn't an issue.

PC, but I might no call it unless it was clear the defender was put at a disadvantage.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by iref4him
A fellow referee ask me the following:

"A1 breaks away from B1 and is driving to the basket. (He made his move around the division line.) B2 is not paying attention to what is going on, had his back to A1, and is standing. As A1 is driving, he collides into B1. WHat would you call?"

He told me that this actually happened and the official called A1 charging since B2 had the right to the spot on the floor and was there before A1. I would have gone with a No Call. Any thoughts.

This is a player control foul. Nothing else. But I assume you meant that he collides into B2?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
But now its a block as the defender has assumed responsibility for contact. When the dribbler is 35 feet away, that isn't an issue.

You lost me here. What?