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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:24pm
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Situation in boys JV game last night. Visitors inbound the ball to start the 3rd quarter, defensive pressure almost immediately causes a travel, which my partner calls. Player called for the travel is clearly not happy about it. I run up to half court to administer the resulting throw in, and as I get close say "ball please". The player turns, gives me a glare, then loads up and fires it directly at me from about 10 feet away. I managed to grab it out of the air and then stared right back at him, until after a few seconds he broke eye contact & turned away. I was within a hair's breadth of calling the T, but decided not to. In retrospect, I probably should have. Both varsity officials were in the stands & we discussed it after the game - one said definitely whack him, the second said maybe.

Here's my question: If you call a T on a player for deliberately loading up and firing the ball hard directly at you, would you call just the normal T for UC, or call a flagrant?
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:27pm
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Just a plain, old, garden variety T.

If he threw it when I wasn't looking and hit me in the head with it, then his a$$ is mine and he's gone.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TimTaylor
Situation in boys JV game last night. Visitors inbound the ball to start the 3rd quarter, defensive pressure almost immediately causes a travel, which my partner calls. Player called for the travel is clearly not happy about it. I run up to half court to administer the resulting throw in, and as I get close say "ball please". The player turns, gives me a glare, then loads up and fires it directly at me from about 10 feet away. I managed to grab it out of the air and then stared right back at him, until after a few seconds he broke eye contact & turned away. I was within a hair's breadth of calling the T, but decided not to. In retrospect, I probably should have. Both varsity officials were in the stands & we discussed it after the game - one said definitely whack him, the second said maybe.

Here's my question: If you call a T on a player for deliberately loading up and firing the ball hard directly at you, would you call just the normal T for UC, or call a flagrant?
As you described, glare, whips the ball at you, then more stinky eye, go with flagrant unless his teammates or the Coach immediately step in to help. If they do, then I give a little more grace and go with UC/T. Is this the first hint of misconduct or has it been building?
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TimTaylor
Situation in boys JV game last night. Visitors inbound the ball to start the 3rd quarter, defensive pressure almost immediately causes a travel, which my partner calls. Player called for the travel is clearly not happy about it. I run up to half court to administer the resulting throw in, and as I get close say "ball please". The player turns, gives me a glare, then loads up and fires it directly at me from about 10 feet away. I managed to grab it out of the air and then stared right back at him, until after a few seconds he broke eye contact & turned away. I was within a hair's breadth of calling the T, but decided not to. In retrospect, I probably should have. Both varsity officials were in the stands & we discussed it after the game - one said definitely whack him, the second said maybe.

Here's my question: If you call a T on a player for deliberately loading up and firing the ball hard directly at you, would you call just the normal T for UC, or call a flagrant?
Similar sitch in an 8th grade boys game. Player mad about foul called, but he didn't wait to "fire" just did it right away, and I wasn't looking. At the last possible instant, I saw something out of the corner of my eye, and got my hand up to block the ball. If I hadn't, it would have hit me in the side of the face. He'd thrown it so hard, it left my hand red and stinging. Partner sprints in and handles kid. No T. I was appalled at the time, but whatever he said, it worked. We didn't have any more trouble at all from that kid the rest of the tournament. So it's another case of calling the T if it'll help, but if not, try something else. You are the best judge -- the only judge!
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:41pm
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I most certianly T him for that.

Had a player hit me in the head a couple of weeks ago, right on the ear...of course he was just tossing the ball to an official and I happened to not be looking as I was reporting the foul. That poor kid looked scared to death when he ran up to see if I was OK...guess he thought he was toast. But then, in my situation there was no glare.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:42pm
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I agree with TOny.

I'll add that generally if you wake up the next morning thinking you should have T'ed someone then you are right.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:45pm
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I agree with Dan
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:46pm
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What seems to be apparent in lots of the questions people write about when we're on the hairy edge of calling a T about something is we're concerned with what other people will think, namely other officials or evaluators who may be watching. I'm not referring to coaches/players/fans. That bugs me, as I feel the same way. I don't really know how to resolve this for myself, but I wish I just had more confidence not to care so much about what others will think and just do what I believe is the right thing to do in some of those iffy situations. You'd think I'd have figured it out after 12 years...

[Edited by Smitty on Jan 7th, 2005 at 12:48 PM]
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:46pm
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Firing the ball at an official is usually easy to define as a whackable offense. No need to warn IMO as there is NO excuse for such conduct. "Hard looks" will not win any browny points with me either.

Also, there are times when a player will not give the ball to an official after a call against him or a teammate that clearly shows disdain for the official. Most cases you would warn for a delay of game but you could easily whack him for USC.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:51pm
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I agree with Chuck agreeing with Dan - I had a situation in a game last March where I didn't toss a player, and I still regret it.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:53pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robmoz

Also, there are times when a player will not give the ball to an official after a call against him or a teammate that clearly shows disdain for the official. Most cases you would warn for a delay of game but you could easily whack him for USC.
Make sure this is a warning of the go-talk-to-the-player variety, not an official warning for delay that goes in the scorebook (DoGW, as I think Juulie called them).

Also, it's not a USC technical, it's a technical for delaying the game.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:53pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally posted by TimTaylor
the second said maybe.
Wow! That's decisive and a really big help. What's the signal for a "maybe T"?????
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:53pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
As you described, glare, whips the ball at you, then more stinky eye, go with flagrant unless his teammates or the Coach immediately step in to help. If they do, then I give a little more grace and go with UC/T. Is this the first hint of misconduct or has it been building? [/B]
The first half was a little physical on both sides, but basically a pretty good game - home up by one at the break. The fact we hadn't really had any attitude problems with either team is probably why I let it go. This incident was actually the first indication something might be brewing, which is why, in retrospect, I wish I'd whacked the kid - it might have settled things down some. The visitors came out for the 2nd half very aggressive & physical. My partner & I recognized it right away, clamped down hard and kept it that way for the rest of the game - had a couple DQ's on fouls and one T for UC. Oh well, live & learn, I guess......
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:54pm
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Great Comments - tough area. If your not right there on the foloor its so hard to "suggest" what could, would should be done.

I tell myself - be patient with obvious game and performance related emotions coming from players,

but,

Be protective of referee's role in the game management

If the player is focusing anger on officials - T

If the player is embarrased with his/her mistake - patience/warning.

Good Luck!




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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I agree with Chuck agreeing with Dan - I had a situation in a game last March where I didn't toss a player, and I still regret it.
Wow, that's a long one to hold onto but I know how you can continue replaying a situation as shoulda, coulda, woulda.
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