Coach out of line

[Future909]

I just want to get your input on this:
As I said before I have a new boss this year that thinks he knows everything because he has been doing this 20 some years and I have been doing it for 3.
Game was a close game with 3 min to go in the 4th quarter and he was the U I was the R. I called a three second violation on the Away team probably a second and a half prior to my boss (U) calling a foul on the home team on the shot. I ran into him and told him I had a three second violation prior to the foul and he looked at me and said, "No, I want the foul." I came back and said look its a close game and my call was prior to yours, play was dead on my whistle. So obviously now the Home coach is going nuts. I backed off because he is my boss and has more years and walked over to the Home coach and told him, the U called a foul and its a foul. Home coach goes on the floor and argues with the U. Using profanity and my boss (U) is arguing right back and telling him he isnt going to listen to him, obviously iritating the coach more. I T'ed up the coach for the obvious obstruction and profanity, which calmed things down and went over to him and calmed him down. What should I have done, after all he is my boss and I need the money and its the only place in So. Cali that I know of that pays this much.
Sorry but this guy irritates me and I won't be doing games with him very often but he is one of those people who thinks he knows everything.

[tjones1]

If you had a violation before the foul (which it sounds like you did) then it should of been a violation. Sounds like a situation I had last Saturday. 3-whistle crew, I was T, very good defense in the backcourt. Whistle from the L, whistle from me. He's got a TO, I've got 10 seconds. We get together instantly, talk very quickly, he obviously was a half second before me. He grants the TO. After it was said and done the coach who was on defense says "Of course I don't like the call, but it was the correct call." What I'm not understanding is why you are allowing him to control your calls on the floor. It sounds like it's a 1 man crew and you need him to sign a permission slip for each of your calls. You are a team out there and you have to trust each other. The T you gave is probably deserving if he came onto the floor and was using profanity.

[rainmaker]

If he's got this attitude, and he's the one that signs the checks, you've just got to give right to start out with. If your conscience doesn't let you do that, you'll have to not work with him any more. That's not according to any manual or guidelines, it's basic pragmatics. "Who pays the piper, calls the tune."

[BktBallRef]

While your "boss" won't be right every time, you should probably consider backing down a little and trying to learn from him. You say he "thinks he knows everything because he has been doing this 20 some years." Quite honestly, he does know a lot more than you do.

If he told you he had the foul, then he probably had a reason for it. Rather than arguing with him on the floor, back off and let him handle it. Further, your partner can take care of himself and probably didn't need you to pop in with the T. Back off and let the veteran take care of a few things. You'll learn from him. Don't be so fast to think that you know it all.

[Nevadaref]

I agree with Tony. If he wants to be a jerk and call the foul even though it is clearly contrary to the rules, let him dig his own grave with the coach and then DON'T COME IN AND CLEAN IT UP FOR HIM. Let him handle that problem all on his own.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I agree with Tony. If he wants to be a jerk and call the foul even though it is clearly contrary to the rules, let him dig his own grave with the coach and then DON'T COME IN AND CLEAN IT UP FOR HIM. Let him handle that problem all on his own.

I agree with Neva... if he feels that strongly about it let him deal with it.

[Redhouse]

I disagree with the fact that just because someone has been doing this for 20 years means that they are that much stronger of an official than someone that has been doing this for a few years. I have been calling for eight years and have seen plenty of folks with twice the number of years or more than me that are horrible officials.

You may however be able to learn what not to do by observing this know it all.

[ChrisSportsFan]

maybe sit down away from the court and say something like: so that I can learn, help me understand why you went with your call over mine.

Since we don't hear his side, I don't know what he was thinking and it makes it hard to comment. Maybe there is something here to learn from and maybe he was just being Macho Ref. Maybe he had a foul long before you had your violation but he just had a slow whilstle.

[Robmoz]

Exprienced vs. skilled? They are not one in the same for sure!

More often than not, it is the veteran officials that do not go to camp on a regular basis or update their rules knowledge with current POE's.

They use the excuse that they should not have to pay the $150-$300 to line the pockets of the assignors when they "know" how to officiate already.

[williebfree]

I agree that years of experience does NOT equate with quality. The potential to improve your abilities as an official each year (game) is available for all officials but not everyone seizes the opportunity.

Unfortunately, a small core of "seasoned" officials take contracts strictly because they have "paid their dues" and NO ONE is going to change the way they operate or force them to delve into a rulebook. I am not a sourpuss, I can overlook a few minor "old school" mechanics, but some of these officials are doing an injustice by staying in the game when their heart is not in it.

Unfortunately, our local association is ineffective in many ways. It is not active in developing young officials, nor does it "police" the officials who should be told to hang’ em up.

In reality, I think that Future909 has a conflict of interest that is impacting the quality of officiating the game that he works with his boss. I would recommend that Future909 opt out of any future games with his boss. It does not appear that Future909 will be mentored by his boss.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Redhouse
I disagree with the fact that just because someone has been doing this for 20 years means that they are that much stronger of an official than someone that has been doing this for a few years. I have been calling for eight years and have seen plenty of folks with twice the number of years or more than me that are horrible officials.

You may however be able to learn what not to do by observing this know it all.

Just keep in mind that we're only getting one side of the story here.

[williebfree]

Our statements are made with the realization that it is ONE-SIDED.

I agree that future909 needs to step back and ask him/herself if their assessment of the situation is accurate.

I do stand by my observation of the conflict of interest, if Future909 officiating style is impacted by his/her employment relationship with the boss.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by williebfree

Unfortunately, our local association is ineffective in many ways. It is not active in developing young officials, nor does it "police" the officials who should be told to hang’ em up.

Are their committees to serve on to help change this? What about running for the board of directors? The best way to change things is to get more involved.

Z

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by williebfree
Our statements are made with the realization that it is ONE-SIDED.

I agree that future909 needs to step back and ask him/herself if their assessment of the situation is accurate.

I do stand by my observation of the conflict of interest, if Future909 officiating style is impacted by his/her employment relationship with the boss.

Have you considered that perhaps Future90's "officiating style" needs to be imapcted by this person?

Lots of officials are a little slower and maybe not quite as sharp as they once were. Many don't want to hang it up. I know I'm not looking forward to that day.

But just because someone is a few steps slower or may disagree with a young official's call, it doesn't mean their heart is not in it. There's a lot to be learned from a lot of these guys.

Let's not disparage every official over the age of 50 with generalizations, just because they're over 50.

Quite honestly, Future909 reminds me of a lot of young bucks when he says, "He is one of those people who thinks he knows everything." I was a young buck once. Then I found out that it was me who thought he knew everything.

Now I'm just old (44), arrogant, and set in my ways.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Just keep in mind that we're only getting one side of the story here.

BktBallRef, you are right you are getting one side of the story. Why would you mention this after someone makes a statement different than yours instead of saying this in the first place? Also, where did someone mention the "boss" being over 50? Although I agree that we are only getting one side of the story it seems like you are being defensive when you don't have to be. The question I would ask is concerning Future909's whistle. A 3-second violation 1.5 seconds prior to a foul doesn't sound right. Stepping in for a veteran to give a T like this certainly doesn't sound right. I think there might be more to this situation than we have been told.