End of game management - Got to be a better way

[Forksref]

Originally posted by gordon30307

Knock on wood I've never came close to having a game break out into a brawl. If I was doing adult rec. ball I'm out of there. If I'm doing high school shame on me for not (as Barney says) nipping it in the bud.

I am sure that you are not judging any of us in here as to how we handle games. If you are, then you must blabme the officials for Ron Artest, et al going into the stands and beating on fans. I guess the officials didn't "nip it in the bud." Shame on us if we can't control the emotions of players who "flip out" during games. And shame on us if we try to do preventive officiating with coaches and players.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by Robmoz
Tightening up?

Perhaps if things weren't loosened up to begin with, you could avoid having to tighten up in the end?

Strive for consistency right from the beginning and you can avoid many adjustments that might be caused by your own style. Granted, each game is different but the tone is set early on (more often than not by halftime at least). At the break, you can correct some minor focus points but there should be no need to make great changes in the second half had you been consistent from the rip.

That's all well and fine as long as the game finishes the same way it started. But sometimes events occur that change the nature of the way the players play the game: second string comes in, lead changes hand late in the game, team getting blown out gets frustrated, etc. Especially at sub-varsity level you can't make a blanket statement about setting the tone early or imply that the trainwreck at the end of the game wouldn't have happened if the officials had been consistent. It's a lovely, utopian theory, but there are games where you have to acknowledge that despite your consistency it's time to tighten things up or you'll have a mess on your hands.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

That's all well and fine as long as the game finishes the same way it started. But sometimes events occur that change the nature of the way the players play the game: second string comes in, lead changes hand late in the game, team getting blown out gets frustrated, etc. Especially at sub-varsity level you can't make a blanket statement about setting the tone early or imply that the trainwreck at the end of the game wouldn't have happened if the officials had been consistent. It's a lovely, utopian theory, but there are games where you have to acknowledge that despite your consistency it's time to tighten things up or you'll have a mess on your hands.

Ray, when the play changes at the end, you can still be consistent. It's them that changed, not you. When they get frustrated, they are fouling more roughly, more carelessly, you call more of them. But then you would have at the beginning, too, it they'd played that way. If they are requiring "tighter" calls, they've changed, not you. That is, if you were calling your game right from the tip. I've noticed that play is pretty consistently rougher about the middle of the third quarter. The players need to re-adjust after half-time, maybe. I call more fouls, but then the smart ones back off, or step it up a little, and then I call less, but I'm consistent in which contact I;m calling a foul. They've changed, not me.

[stripes]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
JV boys, smaller school. Home team completely overmatched. Off and on through the whole game the home coach, who I have had a pretty good relationship with this season, is talking to me about V team fouls that we're missing. At the half my partner and I talk, plan to adjust our mechanics some to try and see this stuff. I even went and talked to the coach at the end of halftime and asked him to tell me exactly what I'm missing. We're really trying to find this phantom stuff. Frankly, mostly what we see is the home team doing stupid stuff, grabbing jerseys, shoving, etc.

With a few mins left in the game, V is up by 30-40. But H is still doing stupid stuff. In the last two minutes I've got a blatant push during a free throw and a dead-ball two handed shove, both by the H team. The coach wants to know why I'm calling stuff on his guys. My answer: "Coach, your guys are frustrated and I'm trying to keep this from coming to blows." Oh, and we fouled out three of his six players.

I absolutely hated how this game ended. I try hard to be aware of game situation and not go rubbing salt in wounds in already decided, lopsided games. But I felt like I had no choice but to keep calling the fouls against H. There has got to be a better way to handle this situation, but what is it?

I guess there are really two questions here: How do I handle the coach, and how do I handle the players?

Ray,

My suggestion is to NEVER go to the coach at half (or before the game for that matter) for advice on what you should be seeing. If he wants to tell you during the course of the game, simply tell him you'll look for it and move on. The more you ref, he coaches and the players play, the better the game will be. You and I have already talked about how to handle discussions about foul discrepancies. If that is really what the conversation is about, end the conversation quickly. Your answer to the coach (re: why you are calling that stuff on his kids)should be "because they are fouling their opponents" or something along thoose lines. Don't try to expalin what kids are thinking. Another possibility is to ask him if he honestly believes that contact like that is acceptable. If he says yes, tell him you will call it the way you are for the opponents and like he wants it for his kids since it is acceptable.

As for the kids, if they foul call it. End of story. Call them all night long.

[Forksref]

Amen to Back in the Saddle! All these Monday morning QB's think that being consistent works when kids are not consistent.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Robmoz

I was referring to the consistency of calling the illegal contact as it occurs in the early stages of the game versus having to "fix" things later on. Too often I hear that guys need to tighten up which implies that they let too much go earlier. "Letting them play" is one thing but let them play within the rules and you can still achieve a good flow.

The point is that the contact early wasn't as rough. However, it later became apparent that the team that was losing was only getting rougher until you called it. So, if we didn't now call the formerly acceptable contact a foul they would only play rougher until we did. It's not about how tight/loose we started or consistency. It was about a team that wasn't trying or able to play basketball and was taking out their frustration on the opponents.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
...The point is that the contact early wasn't as rough. However, it later became apparent that the team that was losing was only getting rougher until you called it. So, if we didn't now call the formerly acceptable contact a foul they would only play rougher until we did. It's not about how tight/loose we started or consistency. It was about a team that wasn't trying or able to play basketball and was taking out their frustration on the opponents.

This is my point, why was it formerly acceptable and later it is called? I am just trying to call the same foul in the first minute that I call in the last minute. As rainmaker posted, "it's the players that changed, not the officials".

[gordon30307]

Knock on wood I've never came close to having a game break out into a brawl. If I was doing adult rec. ball I'm out of there. If I'm doing high school shame on me for not (as Barney says) nipping it in the bud. [/B][/QUOTE]

I am sure that you are not judging any of us in here as to how we handle games. If you are, then you must blabme the officials for Ron Artest, et al going into the stands and beating on fans. I guess the officials didn't "nip it in the bud." Shame on us if we can't control the emotions of players who "flip out" during games. And shame on us if we try to do preventive officiating with coaches and players. [/B][/QUOTE]

Stop yourself right there. Now you're talking about apples and oranges. Professional vs. Amateur. A man (Artest) who has emotional problems and is on meds. No comparison. Don't know you have never seen you work. All I was referring to is we as officials through game management (which includes dealing with coaches and players) can prevent things from escalating. You're example of stopping a game was taken from football. Maybe you do things different in football. Since I don't do football I can't comment. My point is I've never stopped a basketball game to get captains and coaches together nor have I heard of a game being stopped to have such a discussion. You're right I can't control emotions but I can kick them out of the game before things get out of hand. And that I will do without hesitation.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by Robmoz

This is my point, why was it formerly acceptable and later it is called? I am just trying to call the same foul in the first minute that I call in the last minute. As rainmaker posted, "it's the players that changed, not the officials".

You yourself stated that "Granted, each game is different..." What is different about each game? It's the players. If you've got two really talented run-n-gun teams you'll call the game differently than if you've got more half-court oriented teams with a couple big donkeys each.

So what happens when the players change during the game? The game becomes different. You may have to adjust.

Just as an example, say you've had two mature teams with athletic players who can play through some contact and play pretty good defense. You'll let some contact go because you understand that they can play through it. But the game is a 30 point blowout. So both coaches finally relent and send in the scrubs to get some playing time. Now you've got younger, less athletic and less skilled players in the game. The defense becomes sloppier and the players can't play through as much contact. What do you do? You change the way you call the game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Robmoz

This is my point, why was it formerly acceptable and later it is called? I am just trying to call the same foul in the first minute that I call in the last minute. As rainmaker posted, "it's the players that changed, not the officials".

The earlier contact was not hindering the opponents from performing their movements. Thus, it could be ignored. However, in this game, the losing team ultimately lost their heads and would make the contact harder and harder until we called it...then requiring that we call it. It was no longer incidental contact. The players did change and we did too.